Airlines are just pulling one stunt after another--now even less legroom in economy

Parent Cafe
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Okay, I gotta get off this thread because this is way too frustrating. Harvestmoon, you just aren’t listening to us, or don’t believe us. It is futile. But I’ll give you the situation that could have happened to the passenger that was going to take the extra seat. With a little artistic license, of course! :wink:

The passenger decides to put herself on the standby list for an earlier flight because she arrived early at the airport, her flight is delayed, and she realizes that she is going to miss her connection. “Gosh, I hope I make it, it would be awful to miss Dad’s funeral!” (Okay, maybe that’s a little much). Thankfully, they have a no show (that would be Mason), they call her name, she feels a surge of joy, and boards the airplane. Uh oh, there’s a toddler in a car seat in her seat. She says, “Umm…excuse me, ma’am, this is my seat, number 16D.”

The woman in that row doesn’t say anything, she has two little kids she’s trying to deal with. Guy across the aisle says, “No, it’s not your seat, I paid for that seat!” “I’m sorry, sir, what does your ticket say? Mine says 16D”. Guy roars, “I don’t have to have a ticket, I paid for that seat for my older son, and even though he’s not here, I paid for it and it’s mine, you’re gonna have to just sit somewhere else!” The passenger is thinking, “Good God, I would rather sit in the toilet than next to this guy”." But sir, it’s a full flight, I don’t have anywhere else to sit." “Too bad, lady, you’re just gonna have to take another flight, I paid for that seat!”

Flight attendant comes by, notes the ruckus, decides not to challenge the aggressive man who is making a fuss. Softly tells the woman, “I’m so sorry, we’re going have to put you on another flight. Here’s 500 airmiles and a free drink coupon.” Woman walks away quietly, tears coming down her face.

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“they gave it to a stand by passenger necessitating a family of 4 to de-board at midnight with 2 infants with no place to go.”

It wouldn’t have been necessary if he had put the child in his lap and removed the car seat instead of refusing. :slight_smile:

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Yes we can agree the back and forth is getting frustrating. If the scenario you describe with a woman trying to get to a funeral was what happened I might be more sympathetic to what the airline did- but we both know that is not at all likely what happened.

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I think they made the family deplane because the passenger was making such a scene. At that point, I think they gave up and just made them get off. It is not that rare that people have to deplane. If you sit there and argue loudly with the crew, chances are, right or wrong, you’re getting off.

The family didn’t have to de-board because of a standby passenger.

It really was not the families seat. If the kid was a no-show, that’s it. His seat is forfeited.

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The thing is, we have no idea. We never know. There are people flying for all sorts of different reasons, and they can’t be given priority based upon whatever their story is. It would be bedlam. People would lie, others would just suffer. I have sat next to people who are traveling for absolutely horrifying circumstances, and you never know until you see them shaking with tears, and you ask them if they are okay. You just can’t know, which is why there is procedure to follow.

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Might make a good reality tv show. Last seat on the last overbooked flight out for the night goes to the person with the best sob story or who can shame the flight crew the best. :smiley:

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Good one, doschicos! Of course, it would end up going to the person who is the best actor or actress. People with true sob stories often don’t want to be public about it.

As someone who flies a lot as a passenger, I try to be understanding with people who act inappropriately on flights. Sometimes people are just plain terrified, exhausted, or have experienced a very stressful incident (which is why they are flying). Besides the stress of just flying, being packed in there with so many sweaty, smelly, rude and often annoying people, the event that you are going to/coming from, can be full of stress. Probably the worst time for me was when I had to fly while I was undergoing a miscarriage. I know people might have thought I was odd, because I was unable to even utter a word. But they didn’t know.

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@busdriver my last comment is that the dad was not making a scene at all - he was quite reasonable throughout the whole conflict. That is an unfair characterization of the video. And as someone mentioned upthread, Airlines have to adapt and learn to be flexible - balance the needs of those who find themselves in conflicting situations. In the scenario of the woman going to a funeral she might well prevail over a family with 2 infants with one ticket in another child’s name. But Delta never got to that point - they just held their ground showing no flexibility at all.

If the standby passenger who ended up with the seat had some prevailing need for the seat you can be sure Delta would have mentioned that in their apology as a mitigating factor.

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I guess we’ll have to disagree, HarvestMoon. Delta would never invade someone’s privacy by exposing their personal circumstances, I hope. And they wouldn’t want people to think that standby passengers are picked by personal stories, but by a specific method figured out by computers.

I think we saw the video differently. I thought he was calm and reasonable at first (while wrong), and turned into a jerk as it went further. I don’t think the airlines need to be flexible in situations that are clearly spelled out. He hadn’t bought a seat for that child, so he didn’t have a seat. End of story. But I realize that nobody here will convince you of this.

I guess we really are going to have to just disagree, because I don’t think we’ve convinced you of anything. Which begs the question, why am I still trying? :smiley:

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Oh I do believe you. And that’s one of the many reasons I hate airlines. The rules don’t make sense compared to the way everything else works. If I paid for that seat, IMO I should be able to use it as an empty seat for my comfort, or for my toddler. But instead the airlines say, no we aren’t going to reimburse you for it, but we will take it from you and put someone else there.

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^^I know it’s aggravating. I could have saved so much money over the years if I could just put someone else in my seat, or use my funds for someone else. But I can’t, so I suck it up, take the change fee and hope to use the funds later for myself.

If I can get a refundable ticket for a decent price, that’s the best way to go. But it’s usually expensive

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One airline that still does this is Alaska. Shhhh… “My Wallet” is great. I buy a ticket for Mr B, then his evil overlords cancel the meeting. No worries… His 75k gold allows cancellations without a penalty - but no direct refund. I can either cancel his travel and get My Wallet funds deposited into his account a week later or I can rebook his ticket using the value of the current ticket. And miles… can be used to buy a ticket for anyone added to the account. :slight_smile: If you don’t have the gold status, you can do the same thing - just pay the cancellation fee.

That said, I would not dare walking on an Alaska flight with Mr. B’s boarding pass and expect to be seated in his seat. :wink:

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@busdriver11 said =

But that seems to be what they did:

And there is the problem. If he hadn’t spoken to the ticket agent, how would they have even known that Little Johnny isn’t Big Jimmy?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-family-kicked-delta-flight-threatened-jail-refusing-give-toddler-n755141

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? So you’re saying that they moved seats around to allow them to sit together? That doesn’t mean that they magically transferred seats into the other child’s name. I’m not sure how you got that from this story.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, they know where the lap babies are sitting. If you are bringing on a lap baby, they are aware of where they are. They will not know when you walk through the entry door that this child is a lap baby or has a seat, but when you sit down, they will know. And the fact that the older child did not check in for the flight (because he was on an earlier flight), they knew at a certain point that his seat was available.

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Wait just a minute- was the family trying to take claim to 4 seats or 5? This dad paid for only 4 seats, right? As an aside, unless it was a refundable ticket or he was a high level delta flier (like diamond or platinum or such) there is usually a $50 standby fee. Which means he knowingly paid the standby fee for the teen to take a different seat, on a different flight, and therefore no longer had any right to a 4th seat on his flight. The teen wasn’t on this flight- he was on a different flight. They paid for one seat for the teen, and they got it-- on a different flight. So they had 4 paid for seats - one on a previous flight and 3 on this flight. As long as he only took up 3 seats on this flight, there should not have been an issue, as long as each of the 3 people had a boarding pass and seat assignment in their name. But he isn’t entitled to 4 seats on this flight, even if he bought 2 tickets in the teenager’s name on 2 different flights. The teen can only take one of those flights. Its seems the only issue would be whether or not the 2 yr old could sit in the car seat. Who were the 4 tickets issued for? Mom, dad teen and 2 yr old? Not likely they paid for the 1 yr old lap child. If they tried to keep a ticket with a seat in the name of the missing teen, they can’t do that.

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They are about to interview the parents on the Today show.

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But they don’t want their 15 minutes of fame, they just want an apology…right? :open_mouth:

I wish the airlines had the balls to follow up on this and specify exactly what the situation is. But if they say anything except for how sorry they are, they get creamed. Now you get to hear an interview where they won’t ask any of the hard questions, like, was your son over 2 years and one day, and were you were required to buy a ticket, but booked him as a lap baby (if so, you must have put in an incorrect birthdate when you bought your tickets)? Why did you say it was difficult on the flight going over having a lap child, though you used the carrier, was it because the crew objected? Why did you say it would be hard for your wife to have to take care of two children, are you unable to take care of one? Why didn’t you just purchase a ticket for the lap baby on that flight instead of moving your son to an earlier flight? Did you get offered cash or vouchers for your son to take an earlier flight because this flight was full? How much did you pay for that ticket for the earlier flight, must have been really expensive to do it at the last minute. Were both of your children supposed to be lap babies, and you actually only had two confirmed seats on this flight?

Too bad the airline can’t defend itself, it would be far more interesting.

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I have some questions. Why was that 2 year old child allowed to be a lap baby? The rules are UNDER 2 years old, correct? From some easy FB sleuthing, that 2 year old was actually 2 -1/2 years old (birth photos posted Oct 2014). Also, the baby is a girl with the name Kalissa. The 1 year-old is the boy (Dean). Who is this “Grayson” 2-year old that Brian Schear talks about?

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The “Grayson” is supposedly the child that was booked as a lap child, that they brought the car seat in for (if the reporting was correct). If he was two years and one day, they should have bought him a ticket. Maybe they didn’t bring one of the other children? Though he had mentioned having two infants while he was dressing down the gate agent. You are only allowed to bring one lap child per lap.

I wonder if they will specifically ask him in the interview why he didn’t buy a required ticket for a two year old, and if he falsified the birth date. Nah, they won’t ask him anything but sympathetic questions.

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Yes, I know that “Grayson” is the child that was booked as a lap child. They don’t have a “Grayson.” Their 1-year-old son’s name is Dean. The 2 year old “Grayson” is actually 2-1/2 year old Kalissa, according to their FB pages. The pictures of the family are on FB – there are Brian, Brittany, Mason, Kalissa and Dean. If they were going to make up names and ages for their kids, they should have least closed down their FB pages.