With all of these incidents, we never know if the apologies are sincere, so I don’t spend too much time worrying about that point. It’s people who strenuously deny, deny and deny…in the face of multiple accusers, who get my attention. I never want to condemn someone who denies a misdeed until his or her last breath, but some denials are less plausible than others; just like some apologies are more effective than others.
I agree with @hunt. I am not sure how to think about it when this guy seems to have issued a sincere apology, vs. the endless denials and attacks on the accusers that we see from Moore and many others.
It seems to me what matters the most is making the needed changes so that these things happen a lot less often, and women feel increasingly empowered to step forward and not have to put up with this ****.
It is probably a sad commentary that if this is one of the two congressmen who had been identified as sexually harassing women, his behavior is clearly boorish, and disgusting, but honestly, not as horrific as I had expected. I guess my expectations are very low.
I don’t think Franken is one of those the two Congresswomen were referencing. Congresswoman Barbara Comstock reported a case in which a staffer went to a Congressman’s home and he answered the door in a towel, which he then dropped. I think Spier’s case referred to a Congressman harassing staffers. Neither Comstock or Spiers were talking about a Senator, but members of the House.
First, whether you completely forgive someone because he/she apologized (or it “sounds” genuine,) is a high ethics question. IOW, it’s not that simple. And certainly not when the burden is still carried by the victim.
Second, I shuddered at the implications in, "When you’re a star they let you do it.” No!
^ that guy was running for office when that quote of his came out. He still won.
When I first heard that something had happened with Al Franken, I assumed it must have been long ago. Comedy can be a smarmy business and certain decades were very smarmy. But this was 2006! And there’s this:
That seems inappropriate for 2006 too. How do young servicewomen feel about these shows? How are they treated afterwards?
‘Only one of these men is currently running for political office, however.’
But several are HOLDING public office.
From the same article, but concerning sexual misconduct within Congress:
I am a Minnesotan. I think the apology was sincere but I still want him out. There are many qualified women who could take that seat. My concern if is whether the state would ever re elect two women.
In some states he could have a Come to Jesus moment and all would be forgiven. Not here and not just because he is not Christian!
edited to fix typos
Apparently, this is still the case. The accuser (who apparently is a well-known personality, although I heard about her for the first time today) has done lots and lots of USO shows over the years, and ought to know.
I don’t know how young women on active duty service in the military really feel about it, but from what I have observed they participate pretty fully in the culture of adolescent raunchiness, just like many of their sisters in high school and college. Whether it’s to prove they can fit in, or due to social pressure, or they legitimately enjoy it and find it funny, or a little bit of all, I don’t know.
Way to go after Franken, one of the people in Congress who would certainly champion women’s rights. I don’t know why she couldn’t deal with it one-on-one she doesn’t come off as a shrinking violet.
One’s political beliefs, however admirable, dont excuse sexual harassment and or assault. The picture is horrid.
@TatinG
Yes I’m also waiting for the our highest level office holder to be called out and for the multitude of women who accused him to be heard. I’m waiting for that to happen too. How long do you think it will take for that to happen?
I know but there is a point where women can deal with some of this without going on a revenge tear or wimping out. This particular incident didn’t need to used as revenge fodder for getting at someone you are mad at and frankly that is exactly how this news story reads. When they did see each other she was “cold” toward him God golly wow. There are enough people and really truly sad stories - some illegal, some just bad behavior that this particular story just feels like fingers on a chalkboard. And then there will be those that want his butt out of Congress…be careful what you wish for. He did it. He apologized but of course in our environment it’s off with his head or other body parts.
I’m having a hard time with this one because she keeps saying he groped her and he is clearly not touching her in the pic. Yes the picture is crass but he isn’t groping her.
“A fictional TV show has inspired you to start a revolution? Not going to lie, that’s a little frightening…”
@fractalmstr – Nothing unusual about this. There’s a huge history of art, literature and philosophy providing sparks and the fire for wars and revolutions. We atheists have long been baffled by one fictional book inspiring 2 thousand years of wars and revolutions. Which is, by the way, part of what The Handmaid’s Tale is about.
Did the voters of Minnesota really not think Al Franklin had ever told a raunchy (and not too funny) joke? Had they not seen him on SNL making fun of women and minorities in skits he’d authored? I don’t expect politicians to be perfect and I’m okay if they learn from mistakes and admit them. I don’t like Franklin as I find him mean in the way he talks to others so I wouldn’t vote for him anyway, but it wouldn’t be because he’d acted like a jerk as a comedian.
i agree that the picture by itself is inconclusive of whether he he is “hovering” or touching, but I think Al Franken’s own response speaks best : “I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture.” As far as I know, neither he nor the other witnesses her were there and awake have denied the groping.
I don’t watch SNL. I don’t like most comedy performers because things often get crude. I used to get disgusted by John Stewart too. Late night humor in particular seem to skew to the male and juvenile minded. I am also not a fan of broad stereotypes for “humor,”
I have been a granny since I was young!
As a MN voter, I tried to vote for the better candidate. Too often the other candidate was from the religious right and held policy views that I felt were worse. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Yes, the photo and “the prank” are clearly childish and maybe crass but I don’t think this event rises to the gravity of Roy Moore, Louis CK, Bob Packwood, R. Kelly or Dr. William H. Cosby. Unless it’s later revealed that Franken often engaged in such behavior or worse prior to his terms in the Senate, then given his apology and Tweeden’s acceptance of the apology, why should Minnesotans dump an advocate for women’s concerns based on this event alone? Packwood was usually a reliable voice for reason in the Senate, but his behavior towards women was undeniably atrocious. And he LIED about it. I don’t see an analogy for Franken here.