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<p>Aren’t anesthesiologists a high risk group in terms of diversion, due both to access and that they often stand near the patient’s head during surgery (breathing the patient’s exhaled anesthesia drugs)?</p>
<p>Entry level jobs disrespectful? Uhh, tell that to the woman who started on GMs assembly line. She is the new CEO (or president?) of General Motors. Tell that to all the people I know who started at the bottom and are now top of their fields. B…s…</p>
<p>I do know however that within certain communities to work for dealers makes “economic sense”. Until it doesn’t…like jail interfering with life.</p>
<p>Drug testing? My kid had a drug test in his first job. Upfront they asked if kid took certain meds…kid did…brought the legal vials in…and kid got the job.</p>
<p>Zoosermom said: “Any job that involves driving or potentially involves driving will require a drug test, as will jobs requiring any use of heavy equipment.”</p>
<p>Do these jobs also require a sobriety test before they hand out the keys on Monday mornings? </p>
<p>I repeat: I don’t care what our employees do on their own time (drinking, smoking, jumping out of airplanes) as long as they show up for work on time, completely sober, ready to work.</p>
<p>“Do these jobs also require a sobriety test before they hand out the keys on Monday mornings?”</p>
<p>If I smell alcohol on my employee’s breath, I ain’t handing him (or her) the keys to the dump truck. Or letting them operate the fry machine. </p>
<p>“I repeat: I don’t care what our employees do on their own time (drinking, smoking, jumping out of airplanes) as long as they show up for work on time, completely sober, ready to work.”</p>
<p>The question becomes “how do you ensure they ARE sober?” I mean, the drive into work is their time, is it not? That is the purpose of letting your employee know thay can be randomly drug tested: partially as a way to catch those who are under the influence at work, but also as a deterrent in the fear that they can be caught.</p>
<p>True Story: While stationed in Alaska, the Commander of my sister squadron (F-15s) heard that one of his maintenance troops got caught over the weekend smoking weed in his base dorm. Said troop then proceeded to tell the base investigators that he was aware that other members of his unit were also “smoking” on the weekends. Commander shuts down flying for the day, and calls for a mandatory squadron wide drug test. Results: 19 maintenance troops, 19! of the young men and women he entrusted to keep his jets safely flying, and his pilots entrusted with their lives, tested positive for illegal substances (to include cocaine). This was done “on their time”, but endanged lives on Uncle Sam’s time.</p>
<p>For the record, I also thought it was someone from OP’s church who thought the jobs would be too low level to be respectful. It sounded like some strong projection on both that and the drug testing. Even here, we shouldn’t assume it’s the unemployed who would gripe. Of course, it’s possible. But I hate it when good intentions get slayed too soon. In some of the community-related work I’ve done, there are many very good younger people who could use a chance. It can work.</p>
<p>Bullet, I’m absolutely with you. But you’d have no way of knowing if your employee drank himself into a stupor on Saturday night by using drug testing. </p>
<p>I’m afraid I don’t understand how the drug-using troops endangered lives? If they didn’t make repairs while impaired by drugs, where’s the danger? </p>
<p>I do understand that military rules are different, precisely because there is no such thing for the military as completely off-duty, but if the maintenance people were working for an airline as civilians, it would be fine for them to have ten beers on Saturday night but not a single gram of marijuana. This makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>I know some of these types of kids, although they’re white. They believe work is for suckers. They can do better not working at the present time. Making babies is a career choice for some of these, both boys and girls.</p>
<p>I applaud your church for doing this, but I think you’ll have to start with younger kids, like 11 or 12. Hire them to do yard work, odd jobs and as mother’s helpers. Let them earn some pocket change. Set up a bank account for them because some of their parents will “borrow” the money. Let them see middle class families, especially 2 parent homes. Show them that it takes hard work to live that lifestyle. Find them male mentors, even for the girls.</p>
<p>One thing I did for some kids in my rural area was to ask them how they wanted to live; in a mobile home, in a small house, an average house, a big house, a mansion, all of which are in my small town. They learned how much they need to earn to live there. Then they researched what types of jobs would pay that to live the way they wanted. It really made an impact on them. Each of those kids went on to college or the military.</p>
<p>It was a church member, and this adult is a potential role model, so that is upsetting. We have some work oriented organizations in our community as well, and several leaders who are invested in the future of minority youth. Sometimes it does make a difference. A youth can grow up to change future generations. I hope others at the church can be more encouraging.</p>
<p>I’ve been drug tested at every job I’ve held since 1990. This last one didn’t even just do a urine screen- it was a hair drug screen. That patch of hair is still growing back… </p>
<p>If you are using illegal drugs you are a higher risk to the company for a lot of reasons. For one, you have a disregard for the law so what’s to stop you from breaking other laws? Higher embezzlement/theft risk because you need money for your next fix is another risk. It is a lot easier to smell alcohol on someone at work than to detect they are high. Their eyes are red? Maybe it is allergies. They seem lethargic? Maybe they didn’t sleep well. </p>
<p>I think the slippery slope is testing for legal drugs and refusing to hire when nicotine is detected.</p>
<p>*It was a church member, and this adult is a potential role model, so that is upsetting. We have some work oriented organizations in our community as well, and several leaders who are invested in the future of minority youth. Sometimes it does make a difference. A youth can grow up to change future generations. I hope others at the church can be more encouraging.
*</p>
<p>? Was it a church member who is IN THAT targetted community? As much as we don’t like what he said, is it true? If it is, then we can’t “kill the messenger”. If the messenger is saying that there is a perception problem then THAT needs to be addressed. How? I don’t know. </p>
<p>Perhaps somehow getting the influential young folks employed FIRST. Once they are taking “menial jobs” then the others will follow?</p>
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<p>These scenarios make no sense and any company that would use them as reasons to drug test are either being disingenuous or are getting bad legal counsel. I think drug testing is often an “excuse” used by employers for their hiring practices.</p>
<p>Note: marijuana is no longer illegal in every state. Here in Oregon, medical marijuana is legal.</p>
<p>"I’m afraid I don’t understand how the drug-using troops endangered lives? If they didn’t make repairs while impaired by drugs, where’s the danger? </p>
<p>I do understand that military rules are different, precisely because there is no such thing for the military as completely off-duty, but if the maintenance people were working for an airline as civilians, it would be fine for them to have ten beers on Saturday night but not a single gram of marijuana. This makes no sense to me."</p>
<p>dmd, where were these drug tests taken? Not Sunday morning after a night of hard drinking, but when these troops showed up to work on Monday. 19 of these troops still had some level of an illegal substance in their system when they showed up for work on Uncle Sam’s time. This raises an important question: have they shown up to work before impaired? This Commander now had NO faith in these troops that they didn’t, or won’t do so in the future. They might have been physically fine to do the job that particular morning, but this Commander now had to worry about the days he is NOT checking them. </p>
<p>Question I have to ask you now – if you saw a guy drunk off of his gourd in a bar Saturday night, then showed up at the airport Monday and saw this same guy fixing the engine of the jet you were about to step into, just how comfortable would your faith be in your assumption of “well, he didn’t have any yesterday, or 4 hours ago.”?</p>
<p>(I won’t get into the issue of their using illegal substances, which is against orders. But now he has to worry about what OTHER orders are they not following.)</p>
<p>“Note: marijuana is no longer illegal in every state. Here in Oregon, medical marijuana is legal.”</p>
<p>So is alcohol, in EVERY state. Doesn’t mean I get to risk the safety of others by doing something like driving, or operating machinery, or doing some other aspect of my job where my actions might endanger others IMPAIRED by these substances. </p>
<p>Any marijuana is not the only drug they are testing for…</p>
<p>“These scenarios make no sense and any company that would use them as reasons to drug test are either being disingenuous or are getting bad legal counsel. I think drug testing is often an “excuse” used by employers for their hiring practices.”</p>
<p>Are you actually suggesting that legal culpability is an “excuse”?</p>
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<p>Some companies have strict no-smoking policies due to the cost of employer-provided medical insurance. See [Get</a> Healthy??r Else - Businessweek](<a href=“Businessweek - Bloomberg”>Businessweek - Bloomberg). Although most people cling to employer provided medical insurance (perhaps because the costs are hidden from them), they should realize that it means that employers now have an interest in how they conduct their lives outside the job.</p>
<p>Being under the influence of other legal recreational drugs can also be hazardous on certain jobs, so some may consider it reasonable (for example) to test a vehicle or machine operator for current BAC > 0% just as s/he is about to start operating the vehicle or machine on the job.</p>
<p>Pilots get tested. Do we care what they did yesterday? I do.</p>
<p>We can go nuts with tales/examples- the guy whose allergy Rx threw off a test. But every time I took a screening test, the fine print said there would be some follow-up, consideration, a chance to discuss. </p>
<p>Remember, they aren’t screening to determine whom to interview. Mine were always after the offer was made. The offer was conditional on this. It wouldn’t be legal to say, “Well, I won’t look at minority young men because I just know they won’t pass a drug screen.” That would be discriminatory. As would, “because I just know they would refuse the screen.”</p>
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<p>Perhaps more relevant in this situation is whether they are still currently under the influence of some drug (whether legal or illegal) at the time they start operating the airplane.</p>
<p>*Federal Aviation Regulation (CFR) 91.17: The use of alcohol and drugs by pilots is regulated by CFR 91.17. Among other provisions, this regulation states that no person may operate or attempt to operate an aircraft:</p>
<p>within 8 hours of having consumed alcohol, while under the influence of alcohol, with a blood alcohol content of 0.04% or greater, while using any drug that adversely affects safety*</p>
<p>Maybe Busdriver will pipe in.</p>
<p>Maybe my post was confusing. It wasn’t intended to be critical of the church member-not “kill the messenger” but that the message is upsetting to hear. It would be nice if that sentiment could be addressed by other members who would be supportive of young people taking entry level jobs in the workplace- which hopefully could lead to better ones.</p>