<p>Rape is very serious business. So it should be handled in the most serious way. Real professional law enforcement, due process criminal justice.</p>
<p>Not going that way minimizes the seriousness of the offense, the punishment that can be levied against the perp and the protections afforded to the accused. </p>
<p>The federal policy underlying title ix pushes this all to the kangaroo court. The hope was that that would be better for victims. Not sure that has happened. Definitely not better for the accused.</p>
<p>If my daughter gets raped, we are going to the police. And I’m gunning for the perp to do time in jail. If my son gets accused of rape, he’s getting a lawyer to defend him in a real court of law. And I will sue the school if they try to conduct a rape trial in front of a bunch of professors. Period. </p>
<p>If my daughter declines going to the police, I’d tell her she is basically forfeiting the ability to prosecute the offense. Best she will get is counselling, maybe a suspension. That would be her call and I am totally fine with that.</p>
<p>If someone grabs my daughter’s butt, I’m fine with a college kangaroo court handling that kind of sexual assault. If my son grabs someone’s butt, I’m also fine with that being handled by the college. </p>
<p>I don’t know with the others but I got that impression very early on when some posters were shocked when some of us were waiting for an investigation and facts before calling the accused as pigs. So, basically, for these posters the accused were guilty before proven innocent.</p>
<p>“Marie1234, about the details. Looks to me like you are distorting what some of us said. On purpose?”</p>
<p>Where? And, no. I’m referring to the RS story here and the RS story is this incident probably didn’t happen but there is a problem and it’s not the level of problem advocacy groups have made it out to be which is expected but it’s an example of advocacy overreach and it’s backfiring badly and they are freaking out. And, if my D gets her butt grabbed she can handle it as can I and I have and we will feel no need to go before any panel anywhere. Rape is for the police.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily think that is true but, even if it is, there is a difference between thinking someone is guilty before they have been proven to be innocent and thinking that they don’t deserve equal rights. The two are mutually exclusive. </p>
<p>If my child comes to me and says someone raped her I am going to believe her and think the guy is guilty. I am not, however, going to begrudge him his day in court. </p>
<h1>2620 I agree with you and would do the same Northwesty. Also planning on having a very thorough conversation with son # 2 when he comes home for winter break. Not because I think for a second he would ever be anything other than a gentleman but because there are so many things changing so quickly I want him to understand that the standard really isn’t just NO anymore.</h1>
<p>If some posters are arguing rape isn’t a big enough problem on college campuses to be worth worrying about - I think that is a black and white issue. I think it is worth worrying about. No shades of gray there for me. I don’t even see the point in debating it with someone who is still on this thread and wants to argue otherwise.</p>
<p>Thinking unwanted butt grabbing isn’t a big deal is another of those rape culture definitions. imho. One incident, in and of itself, may not be a big deal. A campus where female students are made to feel like they are over-reacting for objecting to someone touching their bodies uninvited in this way… very unpleasant environment for some of us. It sends the absolute wrong message when we are trying to minimize sexual violence.</p>
<p>You make a charge, and when asked to cite a post, you cannot cite even one, yet you are sure of your charge. When I make charges, I do not run from them, and then think asking a question back is proof of something smart. Seriously, you must be smarter than that. Well, maybe not. </p>
<p>If you need help understanding what I am asking for, how about a working example - you could simply follow your own advice about posting that you give other posters. Or does being picky about quoting posts only apply to others, but not to you?</p>
<p>@TV4caster wrote:</p>
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<p>Yes, I would like to “know what in the the blazes you are referring to” when you state that I (and other posters too) think the rights of the accuser are secondary to the accused.</p>
<p>You are free to quote away. Unless of course you are one of those who thinks that two sets of operating rules re due process and civil rights are just fine for different people in the same arena. Hum…sounds like the college tribunals’ SOP. </p>
<p>Here’s a summary: there’s no uniform practice. However, anything short of a suspension or expulsion won’t be recorded on transcripts. Suspensions and expulsions are recorded without much elaboration as e.g. “judicial suspension”, “disciplinary expulsion/dismissal”. FERPA prohibits colleges from sharing the reasons for suspension/expulsion with anyone other than another higher ed. institution, so employers can’t find out the reasons why a student was suspended without their permission but transfer schools can. Some schools allow a student to petition to have suspension/expulsion notations removed from their transcript.</p>
<p>As an employer, I think it’s fair to say most employers do not scrutinize transcripts very closely other than perhaps for very new graduates. They mostly confirm degree receipt and major after the offer is accepted. They certainly don’t look at an official transcript during the interview process. On the off chance an employer notices a suspension they would need to rely on the explanation provided by the employee unless the details can be found on google or there is a court record. If you are trying to get a job as an FBI agent I’m sure things are much tighter. </p>
<p>At his point I would say that as a practical matter, if a suspended/expelled student manages to complete their degree and keeps their name out of the press & court system, then the suspension/expulsion won’t interfere much with their employment. Not that I’m saying that’s an excuse to suspend/expel someone without being quite sure it’s the right thing to do. In 2014, it seems that Google might be the closest thing we have to a “permanent record” ;)</p>
<p>The sexual assault problem on campus is smaller than the sexual assault problem in the US. So, I guess what I’m saying is it’s not a campus problem and more importantly there is no appropriate campus solution to felony rape. The other offenses cover a wide range of incidents but conflating them into a cultural issue is inappropriate and at this point I have seen confusion about what’s what even from students so now we just have a big mess. And, the women don’t lie thing has been pretty much obliterated by Jackie. </p>
<p>As for this Yes means Yes, it is a useless law because as I have said repeatedly it doesn’t solve she said/he said situations unless one has my facetious drone solution with time stamped yeses and zaps, videotape, audiotape, social media posts, photographs of before, during and after the sexual act indicating bliss on both sides. There will still, probably increase tenfold, be charges of rape because it will be ridiculous with one partner saying stuff like “While I said yes to kissing this and that, I didn’t say an affirmative yes 5 minutes later.”</p>
<p>If one desires to “change sexual act norms to create a more positive society” then instead of forcing a useless law then engage in media to promote more positive sexual norms. Hire Taylor Swift so she can sing a yes means yes song. Hire Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez to create a viral You Tube video going through the steps of how an affirmative yes is desired from the beginning to the end. And tell screenwriters to make sure James Bond or other movie heroes are asking first before they enter a woman’s bedroom and shower area. </p>
<p>You’re a guy, dstark. You’re a nice guy, but you’re a guy. People who have been raped don’t necessarily tell other people, and in particular, they don’t necessarily tell their guy friends.</p>
<p>I don’t know that many people either and I know women raped in college. The more this discussion becomes public, the more women share this story with me. On these threads, posters tell us their experiences. I think rape has been very under-reported. Can I prove that? Of course not. If rape is a problem on college campuses, we need to fix it. If we proceed as though rape is a problem on college campus, where is the harm? Someone may waste some time. Is that a problem in the big scheme? </p>
<p>I absolutely agree with Dstark. By the time colleges are willing to admit the problem, we can be pretty sure of its existence.</p>
<p>I don’t have the power to hire Taylor or impact Hollywood, other than being careful where I spend my money for tickets. I do seemingly have enough time to post endlessly on a thread that has 62.5 K views and counting. </p>
<p>Speaking of Hollywood, these days it is pretty common for condoms to be part of sex scenes in movies and especially on TV. That is a huge change. There are also huge changes from my childhood in how media depicts women. Just not enough change yet. imho</p>
<p>The 1 in 5 was a grossly abused statistic especially attached to the word “rape” which has a visual in many people’s minds. I heard 1 in 6 on TV the other night - that person couldn’t even get the soundbite accurate. I never believed that little soundbite from the beginning. The best thing that will occur from the over-exposure in politics and media is that the actual statistics will become more accurate and people will stop using the word rape for things that might be misconduct but certainly are not rape. We can get a national language about just what we are talking about - we can’t do it here, so my hope is dim. Personally I find it disgusting that we think it’s ‘more important’ to fix campus rape which is statistically lower than the rest of society and we should be working toward fixing issues for the entire society. And I find it distasteful that the solution our wonderful folks in DC came up with was to make colleges and universities fix “their” problem which really isn’t 'their problem" and is society’s problem. Then to compound it the colleges and universities went nutso and looked really ignorant in so many cases. </p>
<p>Marie! You stand by this? The sexual assault problem on campus is smaller than the sexual assault problem in the US. So, I guess what I’m saying is it’s not a campus problem??</p>
<p>And, the women don’t lie thing has been pretty much obliterated by Jackie.<br>
It DOES seem that in your mind, a rogue report in RS obliterates the “campus problem.” I have no idea how your thinking gets you to that point. But I do think I would be cautious before putting out a statement like that. </p>
<p>In its own way (posters who "know"me will understand,) it warms my heart when the comments turn back to whether or not J lied or fingers pointed at early posts. It says some here are, sorry, running out of steam. Again, sorry for the observation.</p>
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