Al2, I don’t think that is true. in the past i have expressed the desire that all colleges and universities should be mandatory reporters if the accuser is claiming sexual abuse, but I do not think they all are. in Michigan mandatory reporting only applies to children and the elder abuse.
Re Post 3878:
Saves me the trouble of writing out that that is exactly how my company and other corporations operate and I can bet no school is exempt from that because “mandatory reporting” is federal law (at least in the corporate world it is, doubt schools are different).
In terms of rape and other hardcore sexual crimes deemed a felony, Title IX does not override existing federal law. Schools can get out of adjudicating bona fide rape cases; they just choose not to get out.
EDIT: And I do understand why. That is, the tribunals are being sold as an easier way to get some semblance of a guilty verdict. However, it also waters down real rape to an adminstrative matter, which, to me, weakens the entire point, i.e., to get rape taken more seriously and for the perpetrators to pay some real price, because neither goal s accomplished.
Al2 we’re both associated with colleges. Title IX does have extensive words on mandatory reporters, not something I’ve spent time on. I’ll send a link.
“OCR strongly supports a student’s interest in confidentiality in cases involving sexual violence. There are situations in which a school must override a student’s request for confidentiality in order to meet its Title IX obligations; however, these instances will be limited and the information should only be shared with individuals who are responsible for handling the school’s response to incidents of sexual violence. Given the sensitive nature of reports of sexual violence, a school should ensure that the information is maintained in a secure manner. A school should be aware that disregarding requests for confidentiality can have a chilling effect and discourage other students from reporting sexual violence. In the case of minors, state mandatory reporting laws may require disclosure, but can generally be followed without disclosing information to school personnel who are not responsible for handling the school’s response to incidents of sexual violence.”
momofthreeboys: Not sure if it’s universal. I checked the policy of the college I know well and confirmed my broad understanding. Google turned up several others as well - here’s an example (edited for brevity)
As an employee of Sarah Lawrence College, you are a mandated (non-confidential) reporter of any allegations of sexual assault, misconduct and/or harassment that occur on campus or between two Sarah Lawrence College students. As such you have an absolute obligation to report any knowledge, indication or complaint about sexual assault, misconduct or harassment that you hear about to the Assistant VP for Public Safety (ext. 2384).
When you become aware of an alleged act of sexual assault, misconduct, or harassment, you must promptly contact the Assistant VP for Public Safety (ext. 2384). He will take responsibility for notifying appropriate campus officials and will report all allegations of sexual assault to the local police. The AVP for Public Safety will guide you with regard to how much detail is needed in an initial report. Subsequent to an initial report, campus officials may need additional information in order to fulfill the College’s obligations under Title IX. In taking these subsequent actions, the College will always be guided by the goals of empowering the student and allowing the student to retain as much control over the process as possible, but no employee (other than Health Services professionals) can or should promise confidentiality.
Students must be made aware that any information they share with you about this type of incident will be communicated to college administrators. Many students will assume that they can speak to you confidentially about any topic. While we encourage this type of honest communication, it is imperative that students be made aware of the limits of your ability to maintain confidentiality.
It can’t possibly be universal because Jackie was talking about a gang rape in at UVA for months and the police were not notified until the RS story hit the newsstands. She was offered the choice and declined which is not at all unusual and less so in her case given what we know now, obviously.
I do have mixed feelings about mandatory reporters though, if these people are adults. And funny enough this is perhaps the only area where I agree with the advocates. They don’t want mandatory reporting either. Why? Because there will be less reports thus strengthening my conclusion that this is all about outcome.
marie1234 - Looks like you and momofthreeboys are right about it not being universal.
According to this, http://vpsa.virginia.edu/communications/2014/reporting_website, UVa just instituted a policy with mandatory reporting to the Title IX coordinator in August 2014 (assume it goes to the local police from there, but I don’t know). Google seems to be turning up a lot of colleges with mandatory reporting policies to the local police, but this could just be because of my search terms. From momofthreeboys’s link it looks like it’s a matter of college policy, not of state law (for non-minors at least). The college I’m familiar with did have it several years ago and probably before then. I thought it was best practice. Glad I learned something. Maybe this explains some differences of perspective?
That would be nice (if it were universal). It is not in Michigan and I’m guessing it’s not in Virginia (just looked and Virginia is like Michigan, only in the case of children or elder abuse.). I, as has been posted, am in favor of mandatory reporting. Again I think it’s important for parents to understand the laws where there daughters are attending. Title IX is really horribly written. It’s a shame that the one college in the country that probably has the financial where with all to say"shove it" to Title IX chose not to (Harvard) even though the colleges own college of law wrote extensively about the problems. I’ll have to go research and see what Hillsdale does. Hillsdale does not take federal or state monies so would not have Title IX coercion hanging over “it’s” head.
College sexual assault isn’t my area of expertise but college financials are. Trust me, even Harvard doesn’t have the resources to walk away from all Federal money. And there are issues besides money. Some work just has to involve government funds - for example, any defense related research, working with a national laboratory, etc. Faculty members would leave Harvard in droves even if their grant funding was made whole. From a fiducial perspective, the strongest action I’d ever even contemplate would be for Harvard to comply but then litigate.
It doesn’t say he “raped” her. It says there was intercourse without her consent. Since the entire definition of “consent” has been redefined in these campus hearings, he could very well not be an actual rapist. Or he could be.
This level of punishment makes sense–in fact is overkill-- if the “rape” was one of the cases of what I consider to be pseudo-rape that are being claimed now. For example, the woman who enthusiastically plans and executes drunken sex with someone, now feels bad about it, and claims she “couldn’t” have consented because she had been drinking. The cases where she regrets the sex and makes a case that he “emotionally coerced” her, as in that one bogus–IMHO–case at Yale. It makes me tired that there are “activists” who try to convince women who DID consent that they were “raped.” It makes me tired that they apparently don’t think women are grownups who should take responsibility for their own actions. It makes me tired that there seem to still be guys who think that “scoring,” even if the female is incapacitated, is an acceptable relationship between the sexes.
Reading all this stuff makes me exceedingly tired. I’m tired of reading about people who want the college to adjudicate their bad relationships. I’m tired of reading about guys who apparently think that a woman’s body is available unless she actively fights him off. I’m tired of reading about guys who have sex “with” basically unconscious females. (I say “with” because maybe what we should say is “masturbate inside.”) I’m tired of reading about girls who apparently think that equality means getting obliterated and taking no responsibility for what you choose to do after you choose to get drunk. I’m tired of reading about girls who abase themselves and are willing to be treated like meat to get into parties and sneer at other women who aren’t “hot” enough. It makes it seem as if the college population is divided between predatory jerks and irresponsible whiners and bimbos who want the nanny state to take care of them.
It just depresses me. I think I’m done with this thread.
This is pointless quibbling. Yale determined that there was intercourse without her consent. That is rape by definition. They could be wrong in their determination, but the determination was that he raped her. Maybe they were incorrect, but determining that there was intercourse without her consent IS determining that he raped her.
As I pointed out upthread, that situation can be deemed rape in the state of California. Seeming consent is not a defense to Rape of Intoxicated Person, in the state of California. If the person is determined to be incapacitated (which is not the same as being unconscious) then it doesn’t matter whether they “consented.”
Oh consolation I was there a year ago but I must be a masochist. And CF no it doesn’t mean it was rape. Many states don’t even HAVE a legal thing called rape. Universities certainly can’t legally call someone a rapist. An accuser can’t publicly someone a rapist without being in the target for a lawsuit. At most it was sexual misconduct. In California, maybe they call it rape, but not everywhere.
Momofthreeboys, California was where the incident took place that Consolation so objects to, “the woman who enthusiastically plans and executes drunken sex with someone, now feels bad about it, and claims she ‘couldn’t’ have consented because she had been drinking.” Occidental’s decision follows the contours of California law. I disagree with Occidental’s decision, as I’ve said before, but California recognizes sex with an incapacitated person as rape, even if the person appears to consent.
Don’t tell me I can’t say that Yale determined that a guy raped a woman, and then Yale gave him a one year suspension. That’s just what they did. I’m saying it. They determined he raped her. Go ahead and come at me with that defamation lawsuit.
Is there any state where anyone is a mandatory reporter of alleged rape of a competent adult (not an elder, not someone disabled)? What state is that?
Sarah Lawrence College is in the state of New York. Sarah Lawrence may require their employees to report suspected rapes, but that is not a requirement of state law.
That is SICKENING.
No it’s not sickening, it’s semantics. They call it sexual assault. It’s still illegal and many, maybe most of these colleges call it sexual assault, too. Which actually makes it a much broader category and also makes it much easier to prosecute something and find someone guilty. The more I read this thread the clearer it becomes that people are not paying attention.
I DO think it’s sickening. There should be a specific word for the action of RAPE, as opposed to sexual assault or sexual misconduct or “sexual intercourse without consent.” There are times when the term RAPE is the only accurate term for what has happened.
OBVIOUSLY this is merely my opinion.
I would also like more clarity of terms, actually.
Labeling it “sexual assault” enables them to find a lot more people guilty by muddying the waters of “consent.”
Personally, I find it difficult to wrap my head around a world in which obvious rapists like Jameis Winston and the football player rapists at Hobart William Smith walk free and obviously innocent guys like those in the various cases we deplore are found guilty.
Entire countries don’t have a legal thing called “rape.” There’s no crime named “rape” in the Great White North. There is sexual assault, and aggravated sexual assault.
Three questions have popped into my head recently. They might even help prevent some sexual assaults if some researcher were willing to spend time answering them. Much better than trying to put the pieces back together after an incident.
- Don't many schools in urban areas have security personnel manning the entrances of all dorms and making sure students either live in that specific dorm or are accompanied by a resident? People have to show ID and there are probably video cameras around. My question is: do these schools have much lower incidences of sexual assaults of all types, especially those related to drunken hookups? You'd think the security personnel would deter this. If a student was having another obviously drunk student of the opposite sex visit their room at night it might be possible to do some screening here - maybe a "consent sign-in?" Compare the rates of problems at these schools to those of peer schools.
- It looks like some schools have mandatory reporting and some don't. Study schools with mandatory reporting versus a control group of schools without. Do many more incidents actually get investigated by the police, are there more criminal prosecution and/or fewer campus hearings, etc. Does this help or hurt? Victims advocates groups don't seem to like this but maybe they're wrong. Maybe it's a matter of education to help victims get the support they need to report to the police and for the police to handle these cases better.
- At the risk of offending some people, how do rates of reported sexually assaults vary with % in fraternities or on athletic teams?