All UVa frats on suspension

Parents Forum
4941

Wanted to weigh in on several points raised while I was asleep here on the other side of the world.

I think country-wide fraternity party boycott is a brilliant idea (@Someoldguy beat me to the Lysistrata reference), but the reasons given by the National conference just seemed to muddy the waters by being over-protective and condescending. I wasn’t in a sorority and I’m not a fan of Greek systems in general, so I’m probably not the best person to comment here, but I think this kind of restriction infantilizes college women, at exactly the time that they need to be empowered to make good decisions.

I accept that over the years the police have not distinguished themselves for sensitivity in handling sexual assault cases, but for sure that situation has improved and continues to improve as attention is drawn to it. I’d like to see the Justice Department set up a task force to encourage collaboration between colleges and their local precincts. To me, this makes a lot more sense and has more long term application than allowing the Department of Education to mandate how colleges adjudicate the same cases internally.

The first step would be to set up an environment that would help young women feel comfortable discussing the details of their complaints. Of course, they’ll have to answer difficult questions, but the sooner the situation is addressed the better. This is where victim advocates and college support counselors could be of great value. I’ll have to read the Rebecca Campbell article later in the day, but for sure, there are a lot of people with good ideas out there. I think the same way that progress has been made in cases involving domestic violence and child abuse are handled, progress in handling sexual assault cases isn’t unthinkable, especially if the focus is narrowed to campus sexual assault.

I’m not entirely clear how far the police are able to proceed in investigation without getting a commitment from the victim. I understand that the police can investigate whatever and whomever they want, but I can’t understand how encouraging (not pressuring) the victim to press charges could be anything but a positive step toward getting an arrest and conviction.

I’m glad that the former Vanderbilt students were convicted and that their victim participated forcefully in the trial. This case was exceptional because of the availability of evidence documented by the perpetrators themselves. I’m not sure,though, that the victim was originally willing to press charges. Obviously, at some point, she got good and mad, and her participation was a key element, I think, reaching in the conviction.

I think the Duke Alpha Delta Phi case (the “roofie” case) will also be an opportunity for the victim, college, police and court to collaborate and set a precedent for doing the right thing. If the proceedings are fair and transparent and the victim feels she is treated with sensitivity and respect, I think the legal system could take a step forward in credibility.

The trial of former Duke student Lewis McLeod will begin on February 16 in Durham County. If it proceeds, I think the outcome of this trial will be a benchmark on how college OCR mandated sexual misconduct committees handle he-said/she-said cases going forward. I understand that the financial impact of settling cases may be minimal, but I think the PR and policy impact will be significant.

4942

Alh, great link.

Looks like Rolling Stone published the wrong piece about UVA.

4943

Sevmom, I think the nationals felt they had little choice. I don’t like it in principle, but I absolutely sympathize with their rationale. They have no other leverage, so they might as well try to keep their girls safe.

4944

You guys are also missing that these aren’t typical weekend parties. This was the guys’ bid nights, where girls aren’t supposed to attend anyway. Just like guys don’t crash girls’ bid nights.

4945

I didn’t see anything in the article that said girls weren’t allowed/welcome at Guy’s Bid night. I am not familiar enough with the UVA Greek system to know. Schools vary.

If anything I would think that with all of the attention focused upon the UVA Greek system in recent months that the guys would be on notice and on their best behavior. I also think the women would be more aware of negative situations.

4946

I think NPC policy is that girls shouldn’t be part of guys’ rush events but obviously different campuses do different things.

4947

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2015/01/national-sororities-request-university-chapters-not-participate-in-mens-bid-night

4948

Pizzagirl, Even though at most schools apparently, women don’t participate in boys’s bid night (and that seems to have been your experience), at UVa the women in the past have attended parties on bid night (at least that is the impression I got from different articles). It is not an official fraternity-sorority event. It is a party that the men invite their friends to , and that could include women who are in sororities.

4949

I don’t remember if it was my experience or not, to be honest. I didn’t really go to a lot of frat parties anyway; they aren’t my style and I’m not a drinker.

What I am saying is that apparently NPC has already had a policy saying that NPC members should not participate in men’s recruitment (which presumably has been honored in the breach). So they are enforcing a policy that they already have. The fact that they got all 16 nationals to agree so quickly suggests to me that it really was just enforcement of a policy that they already have (and probably never paid a lot of attention to enforcing).

I agree I wish the girls had done their own boycott, but I feel like I don’t want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here.

4950

But why do you wish the “girls” had done their own boycott? From all accounts, the sorority women have been trying to work WITH the fraternity men (and vice versa), not create an adversarial relationship.

4951

“Work with” how? If I knew more about that, I might change my POV.

4952

I think the fact that the national chapters are united says a lot, as these are organizations that are independent and don’t really have to work with one another except in a very nominal way.

4953

Or it was a possible knee jerk reaction to the Rolling Stone article. I just don’t know. I do know that the sororities are very upset . Of course, the national leaders have a right to do whatever they feel is right. Doesn’t mean the individual chapters have to like it. But that’s a whole other digression about sorority, fraternity life in general.

There is an article from the Washington Post from last night . I’m terrible at links. “Is this the 1950’s? Students respond to sororities telling UVa members not to party with fraternities.” Some sorority sisters have considered quitting over this. Many initially thought it had to be a joke.

4954

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-former-stanford-swimmer-accused-of-rape-20150127-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=649324

Dstark linked to this story in another thread. Maybe he did someplace here, too?

Dstark: I’m kind of hoping you are putting those police links in a file where you can cut and paste whenever the question comes up. Thanks for posting them again.

4955

The link about the Stanford guy is interesting, because it shows that some guys are bad news (the rapist) but there are other guys out there that know to do the right thing. Two guys saw the rape happening, and caught the guy and tackled him.

4956

Yes, sounds like the sort of good guys maybe Dstark’s, former places of employment would interview. :slight_smile:

4957

And a third guy apparently called the police while the two guys tackled him.

4958

Here is the text of the letter. This happens to be from ADPi National, but given that it cc’s all the other national presidents, my guess is that all of the national presidents sent the same letter. The bolded is mine.

NPC Chapter Presidents: I am writing this letter on behalf of the Inter/National Presidents of the sixteen National Panhellenic Conference (NPC) sororities with chapters at the University of Virginia. We are all delighted the moratorium has been lifted and our chapters have completed a successful Formal Recruitment after a tumultuous Fall semester. In our conversations with ISC and various members of our groups, we are encouraged and believe this situation can result in positive changes for UVA. This is our opportunity to support you in becoming change agents on your campus
**We’d like to begin the change with Men’s Bid Night. We want to emphasize that the safety and well-being of our members is our first and foremost objective. We believe the activities on Men’s Bid Night present significant safety concerns for all of our members and we are united in our request that the sixteen NPC sororities not participate. The NPC has a policy stating that our organizations will not participate in Men’s Recruitment, which includes marketing (for example, t-shirts). We think it is up to the men’s group to recruit their members and celebrate those new members on their Bid Night, just as all NPC Sororities do. We encourage you to plan alternative sisterhood events with expectations of full chapter participation. It will be very important for the sixteen groups at UVA to stand united in this. ** As your Inter/National Presidents, we are unanimously committed to supporting you in this effort and other positive changes made for the betterment of the UVA community. It is important for you to know that we are united in our expectation that positive changes do need to occur. All 26 National Panhellenic Conference sororities take these issues and the situation occurring at UVA very seriously. The Inter/National Presidents are committed to taking steps to educate and reinforce our standards and risk management policies with our chapters. We will also be working with
the Inter-Sorority Council through their NPC area advisor, Beth Searcy, to reinforce the necessity of being a collaborative partner with the university to address unacceptable behaviors in the community.
We want to begin with the 2015 Men’s Bid Night activity.
We stand ready to help you in any way necessary to move your community forward. Please know that we speak with one voice in saying that further changes must be forthcoming. Thank you in advance for continued collaboration. Sincerely, xxxx
Alpha Delta Pi International President
cc: (all the national presidents of the other NPC houses with chapters at UVA)

So everyone can stop with the drama that they are being forcibly locked in their houses or that they are being told to never, ever, ever step foot in a fraternity ever again. It’s very clear that this is about the specific Men’s Bid Night activities, which women shouldn’t be participating in anyway - just like the women don’t want guys hanging around their recruitment process.

4959

I hope Stanford takes the time to publicly applaud or honor these guys. It would go a long way in encouraging others to help out when they see others in need.

4960

The Stanford news is why we want bystander empowerment.
““Several students, both graduates and undergraduates, were upstanders in this situation,” Catherine Criswell, the University’s Title IX Coordinator, told the Stanford News Report. “They made the courageous decision to intervene and provide assistance.”