The Stanford student was a recruited national-level swimmer who swam at the Olympic trails. I don’t think there was anything holistic about his admission.
It saddens me that these kids with so much promise and talent are in some ways so misguided.
How did we get here? Seems like a total breakdown in the moral fabric of our society.
Looking back in history and assuming data exists that did not and holding others to an impossible standard for information they did not have does not seem like a useful exercise to me.
Basically, bad activities must be identified and documented in order to be judged. If these top students did nothing in high school, which raised concern, and were straight-A students as well, how are colleges suppose to know they had this type of propensity from a written application? By requiring a psychological screen?
Additionally, there are also recommendations from teachers and counselors that state otherwise, i.e., great student and awesome leader etc. If they saw nothing, seems futile to hold them responsible for recommending.
My point is it takes nothing to look back in history and start saying others are responsible for something we do not like, but that does not mean there is a basis to hold them responsible.
Nostalgia for a false past, Harvestmoon. There have always been bad people who did bad things. Don’t fall into the trap of believing people today are somehow morally worse than they’ve ever been.
And to aw’s point, many bad people don’t exhibit evidence of bad - until the day they do. We need to stop pretending that all of these people gave out “magical signals” that everyone ignored. I’m willing to bet many of these people are charming and pleasant and friendly as can be - until the moment they do something bad.
That’s like when parents of young kids try to vet their kids’ playmates’ parents by checking them out on LinkedIn or Facebook, as if there are going to be blaring signals.
PG: You think the first assaults by these young men are when they arrive at college?
alh, the issue is whether the college would be able to tell whether their admission candidates were rapists. I can’t see how colleges would be able to know that.
Media’s fancy? 
That is insulting.
Awc, I don’t necessarily disagree on the grey areas comment.
That Duke case, with what little I know, I don’t know what should be done there. If I had all the known information, I still might not know. (I think there is a good chance he raped her too. ) I don’t have the answers for everything. 
I will say this…the defense that you have a witness who says he saw a couple laughing and dancing at a bar an hour before the attack…that’s not really a defense. I have laughed and danced with plenty of people and I did not have sex with them.
I do know I will not be giving speeches. 20 year old frat guys are not going to want to listen to me. They might, might listen to each other.
I guess my question is whether colleges could tell whether they were mensches. Maybe that is unrealistic.
I think things are far worse on our college campuses today than they were when I attended. There were issues but I do not recall sexual assault being as rampant as it is today. Maybe we look back with rose colored glasses but I just do not remember it that way.
The new President of Dartmouth has just announced a ban on hard alcohol on campus, a mandatory 4-year sexual assault education, and other things. A very bold move.
http://www.vnews.com/home/15433505-95/hanlons-reforms-at-dartmouth-college-include-hard-alcohol-ban
It was rampant on the campus of my southern state flagship. And there was public sex. I had just sort of hoped second wave feminists would have done a better job raising our own kids. I am sorry that is harsh. That is how I feel. I hate to blame individual parents. It is all of society. It is my fault, too. We are all responsible for all our children and we have failed to protect them. imho
Awc, I agree that this case is different in that rather than an accuser coming forward afterwards, the guy was stopped while, allegedly, in the act of raping someone. There are difficult cases. If the news reports are correct, this isn’t one of them.
But just because easy cases exist doesn’t mean the university should ignore difficult cases.
Is that because there were fewer rapes, or because young women today are bolder and speak out about their rapes? I can’t tell, but I’m glad that women now have the guts to come forward.
Dartmouth wants to set up residential colleges like Yale’s! That’s cool.
4992 Yes, We can't give these young women enough support. They are changing the status quo. They are truly amazing. We did do some good parenting. (sigh of relief)
I never said ignore difficult cases; I said it does not mean they should act the same in difficult cases. Agreed, this is not a difficult case, so it is not a good example to use for the broader discussion.
The Stanford and Vanderbilt cases are great cases while discussing expulsions before convictions.
I thought schools have code and conduct clauses for students. I thought my school did decades ago. If I am mistaken on this, the schools should be working on correcting this right now.
When I read what Dartmouth is doing, I feel good.
I do not see this as bold, but as the next necessary CYA step.
I said it before and they know they are vulnerable; colleges cannot repeatedly ignore activities re underage drinking that would shut the restaurant and the bowling alley down the street down and think nothing will ever happen to them. Colleges are not immune to basic laws, no matter what people want to think. Just because they have not been challenged (publicly at least) on it yet and drinking in college has been looked over as a some cultural rite of passage overlooked by many adults does not mean colleges are not aware that this is the next legal and liability battleground for them, if the sexual misconduct associated with alcohol continues.
I never said you said we should ignore difficult cases. We’re in agreement here that this Stanford case is not a good example when trying to figure out what to do with cases lacking the slam-dunk evidence that seems to be present in the Stanford case.
BTW, in the Vanderbilt case, the police and the university proceeded to investigate, initially, for a few days, while the victim still was not accusing the attacker. So police can investigate rapes even if victims are not yet saying they’ll press charges. The Vanderbilt victim found out she was raped because the police showed her the video, according to news reports, and that was days after the attack.