All UVa frats on suspension

<p>This <a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-remains-resolved-to-address-sexual-violence-as-rolling-stone-account-unravels/2014/12/06/66c0c780-7d64-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-remains-resolved-to-address-sexual-violence-as-rolling-stone-account-unravels/2014/12/06/66c0c780-7d64-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html&lt;/a&gt; is very heartening. </p>

<p>"Ashley Brown, 23, a senior who heads a sexual violence prevention group called One Less, said U-Va. must remain resolved to address the problem. Brown said she and others met with Sullivan on Friday morning to discuss ideas about how to set reforms in motion. One proposal is to use written agreements between the university and social organizations, including fraternities.</p>

<p>“Change is on the horizon,” Brown said, “with or without the details of the story that are being contested.”"</p>

<p>Jackie has PTSD, not surprising. Not surprising, either, that the story is fragmented in her head, or that she asked RS not to publish, or that those around her believe she was sexually assaulted. But, the reporter sought her out, not the other way around. Let’s be clear on that.</p>

<p>That said, the fact remains that UVA admitted on tape that they did not expel admitted rapists from their campus.</p>

<p>For me, for most, the fact of unpunished sexual assault on campus is an abomination. The fact of the rapist quarterback at FSU is an abomination, and the world needs to change. The police need to change and the response of the authorities on college campuses need to change, when confronted with the issue of actual sexual assault survivors on their campus.</p>

<p>Sexual assault reliably produces evidence. The police need to investigate for evidence, not toss the survivor out onto the street without any kind of investigation at all. </p>

<p>That said, I don’t know why on earth much gnashing of teeth is going on over wrongful rape accusations. Look how quickly any kind of investigation at all turns into the desire to prove the accusations wrong. There is so little risk of wrongful rape convictions, it’s boring.</p>

<p>I’m not entirely convinced that Jackie is a victim of sexual assault or that she is suffering from PTSD. That she is a troubled young women is obvious. I believe her pain and suffering are authentic and may be caused by a mental or emotional disorder, but I’m not sure that the causes have been identified.</p>

<p>Jackie told RS that she was taking Wellbutrin for depression, and she told the WaPo that she had been diagnosed with PTSD. She may well be suffering from clinical depression, but the cause of her unravelling could be something other than trauma, sexual or otherwise.</p>

<p>Reading between the lines, there are several indicators that all was not right in her world. She told RS that she had a “strained relationship with her father in whose eyes she’d never felt good enough”. RS describes her as an academic and exra-curricular high achiever – a role model, and implies that her parents discouraged her from socializing and attending fraternity parties. She told the Post that wanted to go to Brown but that her family couldn’t afford it. Despite living in Northern Virginia “she enrolled in UVA without ever visiting the school.” </p>

<p>RS says that after she was attacked she became despondent, dropped out of at least one class and considered suicide. She reached out to her mother for help as the term ended, but what she actually told her mother about the fraternity attack is unclear. </p>

<p>At the end of her second term, Jackie, along with her mother, had a meeting with the academic dean because she was failing 3 classes. According to RS, Jackie’s mother explained to the dean that her daughter had had a “bad experience” at a party. </p>

<p>The academic dean referred Jackie to Nicole Eramo, the dean in charge of sexual misconduct. Eramo listened Jackie’s story but left the decision of what to do next up to Jackie. Eramo sent Jackie an email thanking her for sharing which is hardly a believable response if Jackie had indeed told her the same account as she told RS. </p>

<p>Here the RS article lapses into fuzziness: “In the meantime, having presumably judged there to be no threat to public safety, the UVA administration took no action to warn the campus that an allegation of gang rape had been made against an active fraternity.” </p>

<p>Just how the “allegations” got from Eramo to the “administration” isn’t clear, but I have to believe that the Dean in charge of sexual misconduct and the UVA “administration” would have done SOMETHING after hearing that a depressed, suicidal and failing student had been violently gang raped in a fraternity pledge ritual! UVA may have been too lax in response to individual he said/she said cases, but this is a major criminal act with 9 offenders. Surely the college would have taken some action.</p>

<p>Then there’s “Drew”. Various acquaintances of Jackie’s have subsequently claimed to know the identity of “Drew.” When the WaPo tracked him down and talked to him he said that he “was familiar with Jackie’s name. But . … added that he never met Jackie in person and never took her out on a date.” If this “Drew” is to be believed, it appears that Jackie fantasized a date with the handsome lifeguard and a romantic dinner at an expensive restaurant. </p>

<p>As for what happened after dinner, Jackie stands behind her account of the horrific violence that she endured with “Drew” at the fraternity house, but as contradictory and inconsistent details emerge, it seems to me that the whole event could be fictitious.</p>

<p>I’m not suggesting that the other stories recounted in the RS article are fraudulent or that UVA doesn’t need to improve their response to sexual assault and take rape claims seriously. And I don’t mean to suggest that Jackie doesn’t deserve sympathy, support and treatment. I’m just not sure for what. </p>

<p>Fact: rape happens.<br>
All this heat about whether or not this one media report is accurate or what truly happened to her or what her state of mind is, the speculation on who said what to whom, took the right action or didn’t, what was forgotten, whether or not some firm will hire an investigator and maybe figure out an applicant was in that frat that year, what constitutes libel, lifeguard or no lifeguard, party or no party, the reporter’s future prospects, whether the law is too broad, whether some stats are accurate, who this, who that, whether this or whether that…</p>

<p>…is skirting the issue: rape happens. It is traumatic. It’s not always clear what really occurred. (Not even with physical evidence.) And not enough is done to prevent it, deal with it, and manage the personal aftermath. Everyone wants to have a say, but is any of this moving us forward on this big issue? </p>

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<p>This is simply not true. Working for the government? You’ll more than likely need a security clearance. Classmates of D’s have had difficulty obtaining one - without the issue of allegedly participating in a gang rape clouding their backgrounds. Have another candidate with a clean background? I wonder who will be getting that job? </p>

<p>Fact: rape happens.</p>

<p>Is anyone denying this. After reading most of this thread I don’t see that anywhere yet it seems to be an issue,.</p>

<p>I think it’s possible the “bones” of her story are true. But it didn’t happen at Phi Psi. Someone new to the Greek system might very easily confuse letters / names. Who did have a party on Sept 28, and what houses did have lifeguards who overlapped with her shift? </p>

<p>"This is simply not true. " Agree. And there are grads that go from UVa to places like Bain and Mckinsey, especially from the commerce school.<br>
Unfortunately,the author’s choice to focus on one school and focus heavily on one alleged sensational incident has backfired. It really is clouding what should be a national discussion.i have seen no one here say that rape does not exist on college campuses or that the issue does not need to be addressed.</p>

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<p>I don’t really think this is clouding what should be a national discussion. I actually think RS published this piece and went about it this way BECAUSE there is a very broad national discussion going on about rape on college campuses. </p>

<p>The unfortunate part of the story is that it has given ammunition to those who want to act as if this is all just hoopla. </p>

<p>But, it won’t really matter, in the long run. The conversation and the search for a solution will continue. The big loser in this will be Jackie, who asked them not to publish the story. Irresponsible journalism aside, a lot of other issues at UVA, which are really national issues, were brought out into the light. No matter what, UVA has changed it’s policy for the better.</p>

<p>That said, the next step in the dance is to get the police to begin to actually investigate rape as the crime it is, and I think we are getting there. Ultimately, as Lisak and others have pointed out, the reason this has become a campus issue IS because the police have taken a very unprofessional approach to the investigation of rape, enough so that they discourage filing of charges without even looking into the crimes they DO receive reports about.</p>

<p>As colleges come to a better ease with the fact that rape is happening, maybe they can put some policies in place to actually assist these young women through the process of reporting. If your daughter was raped when she lived at home, you would take her to the police, you would sit with her, you would take her for the rape kit. I think we need to ask our schools to put some counselors in place to do this until they can get us to where they are to help them. </p>

<p>I have been following this all closely, and have some thoughts/questions. I am old now and things have changed a lot since I was in college, especially for women. I feel women are very much more empowered today. I also only have boys so this issue is not something I have ever been worried about because I raised gentlemen. </p>

<p>I am thinking about rapists in general and wonder, I think there are two different kinds of rapists, the violent stranger rapist (the Graham case) and then there is the, jeez what to call it, the opportunist rapist? these are the men on campus, the creepy guys who claim to “not hear NO”, drug women etc. One is not better or worse than the other just different. </p>

<p>My thoughts are that no matter how committed colleges and police forces are to “change” etc I am not sure how you fix a he said she said situation without just believing women. This is a problem which is highlighted in situations like the one we have here with Jackie. YET I believe these women need help. Separating the cases where the women are drugged (because they have zero power there), I think we need to teach women to “bite, kick and scream”. Maybe if we can remove the incidents of sexual abuse where there was a difference of “opinion” as a defense for the creepy guys more cases can go forward towards prosecution? AND please know I am not victim blaming here, I only care about prevention. I am thinking that we need to empower women, even though they may be smaller etc. I personally would rather have a bruise on my body than one in my heart. Couple that with education for the boys who are not rapists and maybe we can begin to stop this. </p>

<p>A lot of the talk here and on other threads has been about UVA’s mishandling etc. And people are still saying that UVA mishandled “Jackies” case, did they?? It is an inaccurate account by all indications. Many people are very upset that UVA has not expelled any “rapists”. Because after the RS article your mind pictures all the rapes at UVA to be like Jackies horrendous story (which now is inaccurate). Maybe , and I say maybe, it is because the cases that have gone forward to prosecution, even if it was in the University justice arena were that of the date rape variety? Which puts anyone in the judgement department in a tough spot. </p>

<p>Now please no yelling, these are just thoughts. :)</p>

<p>Columbia has 3 different women accusing the same guy of rape. He was taken before their sexual misconduct board but is still on campus. The women have been carrying mattresses around campus and protesting.one of the alleged rapes was said to have occurred in a dorm, not sure about the other two. Names of other alleged rapists have been posted on campus.I think colleges may be in over their heads with the title 1x mandates to investigate these alleged crimes.
Sorry, can’t post a link but Huffington post has done a lot of reporting on this. Lots of detail in an article from Septemer 12th.</p>

<p>Instead of carrying around a mattress, did she go to police? </p>

<p>I believe she has also filed charges with the police,but not sure where that stands. She had had consensual sex apparently a couple of times before the alleged rape and I don’t believe she reported right away . Huffington post has done lots of reporting on this.</p>

<p>I do believe that is the story. They had a consensual relationship then one night she claims she did not consent. The mattress dragger my favorite media spectacle and such a strong story for rape…not. The media just can’t seem to get it right. And no she did not file a charge with the police at the time it happened but I believe later after the college in her opinion failed her i think she did finally report it. </p>

<p>I read that article, I believe the accused was her boyfriend or someone she dated and had previous sex with, then they broke up but got together one night and supposedly they were having sex, which I think she was okay with but then expanded to rough anal sex which she was not okay with. Further I believe there were 2 others who came forward and had complaints about the same guy. The problem were that none of the three complaints were brought immediately to the attention of the University or police. </p>

<p>It is really difficult to fault any body, whether the police or a University when complaints are not brought immediately so real evidence can be obtained. That is definitely one of the things that has to change. </p>

<p>On Friday the NBC station in Charlottesville via Twitter was reporting that Jackie would make a statement over the weekend. </p>

<p>So far nothing.</p>

<p>Yes and the media has legitimized an event that the university found not worth punshing, the young man’s name was outed and the police have so far declined to investigate. They left their mattresses lying around and had to pay to have them removed. And she got credit for the stunt. But whatever. The mattress dragger…my all time favorite PR stunt. All these stories do not help the women that actually need help. Two other women allege that the young man was rough with them also, but who would believe any of them now after the stunt and the 15 minutes of fame approach. I really, really believe this advocacy based journalism some of which the young women are choosing is not helping women…</p>

<p>Three different women have accused the same guy of rape, and you don’t believe them? A priori, I’d say that makes the accusations pretty plausible.</p>

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<p>You are again very kind in your post - “impact journalism” today seems rather similar, if not the same, to propaganda, i.e., stuff made up and thrown out not for its truthfulness, but for its effect. Impact journalism is nice way to say, let’s make it up and sprinkle kernels of truth in between. That is beyond scary to think that is where we are in terms of certain segments of journalism.</p>

<p>And lies about anyone or any entity in the entire story also hurts innocent people directly in some cases sand indirectly in other cases. And that is a moral issue that should not be dismissed, as just being able to drop it of one’s resume. The person lied about should not even be in that position to have to do that because it is false information about him.</p>

<p>People may think they are advancing a cause and may not care that the truth is sacrificed in the process, but it is rather short-sighted not to realize that others look at you and think, “What kind of world do you live in where truth does not matter, lying about others is not a problem, and lies and truth are muddled together and your response is ‘So what’?” Sounds familiar though - that is what we used to call propaganda by totalitarian states when stories and lying were OK to get the populous to do what the State wants. That I find unacceptable and morally defunct.</p>

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<p>No.</p>

<p>However, there is entire chorus denying the fact that females who seemingly lie or embellish about rape is not a problem and that we should sympathize with them because other rape happens. </p>

<p>Well then, maybe we should extend that to people who lie about others killing someone; people who lie about others stealing money; people who lie about others committing espionage etc… Hey, all that stuff happens too, so we need to understand that the lie is not the problem. It is only the fact that that stuff happens is what is important and it does not matter who gets damaged in the process. </p>

<p>Do people actually live in such a world of twisted logic that truth is just a by-product of the story, but not central to it? I guess and there is word for that - fake.</p>