<p>I’m all for affirmative consent, but I’m not sure how that changes the status quo vis-a-vis how one proves that a rape occurred. </p>
<p>Of course her body is more valuable but you are digressing Cardinal to prove your point. Sex isn’t something young people typically talk about, and instead tend to rely on body language etc. Not that it is right just kind of how it has been done. I think I wish I knew mini. Going to make sure to have that conversation with my kids. </p>
<p>That was a true story I posted and the boy was suspended. I just don’t think it is as clear as you do, I think that I would never want to be the person on a board that had to be the judge of something like that, a situation like that. It was as he said she said as it gets. </p>
<p>Some of these are very poor analogies.
There is no viable scenario where someone gives another person their credit card to use without some kind of discussion of what you are to use it for.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are plenty of scenarios for the situation at hand where there is no verbal discussion, especially if the two people are in a relationship.</p>
<p>Bay - I am trying to brainstorm ideas to prevent rapes. My hope is that two people stop a minute and talk so there aren’t these mixed signal scenarios. </p>
<p>I understand what you are saying Pizza but Ederly wrote, “She and Drew had met while working lifeguard shifts together at the university pool…”
<a href=“http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119#ixzz3LKcvbURd”>http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119#ixzz3LKcvbURd</a> </p>
<p>FWIW, I had never in my entire life, before a sexual act, said out loud, “Yes, I want to have sex with you.” It was a “click” when we stared at each other’s eyes and foreplay commenced. And that affirmative consent, is that before the act AND during the entire act? How many minutes should I say yes again? Do I need a timer?</p>
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<p>The part I find interesting is that people are reduced to are comparing sex to business transactions. I’ll be damned; hookers were on to something after all.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl and @Krilles - your two posts show why trials by media are horrendous ideas. This lifeguard vs swim coach thing would have been cleared up by real investigators in 5 minutes</p>
<p>The point about the guy is that, in your telling, his defense to rape was that he didn’t hear her say No. That’s no defense at all. </p>
<p>If the guy also said something like, “We walked into the room and she was all over me, kissing me, removing my clothes and her own, hopping into bed and dragging me by my necktie,” then that would be a different story. Notice that I said she had to consent by word or deed. You have given me no reason to believe this girl consented in any way at all, by word, by action, by anything. Walking into a room with a guy is not consent. It’s not. </p>
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<p>I would presume that happens. You don’t end up naked in bed with someone without some sort of conversation about birth control about this and that unless you are dead drunk or drugged…and then it is rape. And this is the presumption many people including the police probably take. I presume girls don’t end up in guys rooms in bed with them naked unwillingly in the absence of being dead drunk or drugged. If the girl says otherwise, then I’m interested in the facts, what happened that you ended up naked in bed with a guy you didn’t want to be naked and in bed with. Seems simplistic, but it really is. In the absence of force with is rape, what are the facts that make a person claim they were assaulted. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. </p>
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<p>Of course. Guard it. Take care of it. </p>
<p>I was under the impression that Drew had been identified by name, and that was how they were able to interview him. If so, his membership in Phi Psi could easily be confirmed. </p>
<p>OMG - awctnb, I remember you now - you are the one who was all about the “sugar babies.”</p>
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<p>Do you agree young men should ask if the woman wants to have sex before the act, before they get naked?</p>
<p>Do you agree alcohol prohibitions should be enforced so we don’t have so much drunken sex going on?</p>
<p>PG: his posts have seemed almost always misogynistic to me and I stopped responding a few threads back.</p>
<p>CF, I gave you none of those details, and you didn’t ask, you just assumed he was the liar. They were absent from the paragraph and you did not ask any questions. I think that is the crux of the argument going on here. I think we all want the same thing here. For anyone to assert that one of the intelligent people on this board are advocating for rapists is crazy. Everyone wants the rapists out. We are just coming at from different angles and this inaccurate sensational article is clouding a very important issue. And the inaccuracy of it is hurting the cause.</p>
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<p>Again, you apparently either can’t read or didn’t bother to read my post. I never said that you said no female should be believed. In fact, I also said in another post right after that you said “no female should be believed or disbelieved” which is the exact quote you referenced above. </p>
<p>What I DID say was that you said no woman should be believed if there was no corroborating evidence which is exactly what your quote says above. </p>
<p>So, I asked you again: If a woman goes immediately to police and says that she was raped and a rape kit shows that there is semen in her but the man says he just met her that night and had consensual sex. What do you suggest the police do? Better yet- you are the investigating officer and have no other corroborating evidence. What do YOU do? </p>
<p>Your above quote says you wouldn’t do anything. Am I wrong? </p>
<p>Now that I think about it, I think the “Drew” that was interviewed was identified as matching the description of a brown curly haired lifeguard with dimples. Maybe they interviewed the wrong “Drew.” Jackie needs to name Drew. </p>
<p>Bay writes:</p>
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<p>I agree with you that many rapes are going to be hard to prove; that’s the sad but true fact. But the case Mamalumper cites is one example that’s illuminating. The guy is accused of rape. He is accused of penetrating a woman without her consent. He says she consented. The investigators ask, How did she consent. He says, she didn’t say No. The investigators ask for further information about this alleged consent, and he provides none. </p>
<p>The investigators have that guy dead to rights by his own admission. She says she didn’t consent, and he has given no claim of affirmative consent either. What we have here is a rape.</p>
<p>Teaching men about what constitutes rape doesn’t help us much in proving that a rape occurred. But it might stop some potential rapists from raping, if they now know that what they are about to do is rape.</p>
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<p>No, I was not all about sugar babies. However, I was the one who seemed to be the only person who knows people who have them and who, on the thread, understood how the whole thing works. There is a difference. You may recall I also advised against it.</p>
<p>I have an update there - I met my first sugar momma the other day. She is 55 or 56 and he is 28, and she owns a couple sports cars; my favorite of hers is gorgeous Ferrari. Women are catching up slowly in that sugar department. </p>
<p>OK, back to UVA and on topic. thanks for the division though. It was funny, as I forgot about that thread. </p>
<p>In mamalumpers example, I think the girl should have asked the boy first before grinding her groin on the boy’s parts. That looks like sexual assault to me.</p>
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<p>Mamalumper, you gave an example. I am not saying the guy was a liar. I was assuming that he was telling the truth. If he was telling the truth that he didn’t hear her say No, and if he does not offer some evidence of consent, then he is prima facie a rapist. A truth-telling rapist.</p>