<h1>1510 - I see a few problems. Here is one. Sometimes an individual, female or male, won’t be in a position to say “no.” If they have had too much to drink, perhaps. This is the scenario where the penetrator believes lack of “no” constitutes consent while the one being penetrated may not even realize what is happening. And that seems like rape to me.</h1>
<p>I think affirmative consent is a good thing. I think enthusiastic affirmative consent is an even better thing.</p>
<p>This RS article has probably forced many families to have to consult lawyers. It seems to have morphed from it was definitely phi psi to maybe it was another fraternity. I’m just glad my kid was already graduated when this alleged gang rape took place. He was in another fraternity but your instinct is to protect your kids. Something very well may have happened somewhere but now everyone is suspect. There have been recent reports about alleged rapes at Columbia, Brown, Amherst,etc. But the reporting did not seem to take the sensationalist tone that this RS article took. Guess that kind of more balanced reporting doesn’t get you the Pulitzer though.</p>
<p>Here is a portion of the California penal code relating to consent to sexual intercourse:</p>
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<p>Positive cooperation in act or attitude, according to the state of California. It says nothing about that positive cooperation being expressed in words. However, prudence dictates that getting a verbal OK is not a bad idea.</p>
<p>SoWhat, you may believe that a partner should be able to proceed until the other partner says No, and you may believe this is a system that works, but that’s just your opinion. I disagree; I think it’s a system that “works” for men, but not for women.</p>
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<p>Nice sleight of hand. No one is saying take a 1% risk every day. But what about 1% every year? How long will you survive then? I will make it easy for you. The half life in 70 years then.</p>
<p>1 in 100 is the odds of dying in a car accident. Yet people get behind the wheel every day.</p>
<p>Someone on this thread (PG?) mentioned that the Phi Psi who has retained an attorney was a lifeguard or on the UVA swim team(?) Where did you get that information, as I have not seen it published anywhere?</p>
<p>I found this article trying to answer my own question. I think it brings up some good points, examples etc. Supports what you said SoWhat</p>
<p><a href=“False rape accusations: Why must we pretend they never happen?”>http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/09/false_rape_accusations_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.2.html</a></p>
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<p>OK. I’ll correct you. You’re wrong. I don’t believe the BOJ numbers because the BOJ itself has repudiated them.</p>
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<p>Interesting phrasing. May I borrow it for a second. </p>
<p>It seems the Founders were onto something truly fundamental because (paraphrased) “as a far-right, conservative, Christian, libertarian, person I like the current system. I like my rights as they say.”</p>
<p>We proably could not be further apart ideology-wise, but we like the same system. Not an easy feat to pull off. </p>
<p>The more fuzzy part is I am probably as anti-establishment as you given my deep libertarian bent.</p>
<p><a href=“Motor vehicle fatality rate in U.S. by year - Wikipedia”>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year</a></p>
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<p>Why? I am genuinely curious. Leave aside the legally incapacitated (that’s a LOT of drinking!) cases for a moment please. Now imagine a world where men stop the moment women says no, and since women are not legally incapacitated, they CAN say no. Why does this not work for women?</p>
<p>Note that I am talking about intercourse here, not ass grabbing. Ass grabbing is not even a crime, and most definitely not rape. So I do not want you to conflate the two.</p>
<p>I am genuinely trying to understand your position here because 1) May be I am missing something and heaven knows I do that at least 10 times each day, and I want to learn, and 2) I also want to know how I can implement Enthusiastic Yes <em>in practice</em> for all sexual acts without it becoming a comedy. I just want to state one thing clear, Enthusiastic Yes has to be verbal for me. I am not going to infer what a women may be OK with. If the legal standard becomes Yes is Yes, then I would need a verbal Yes. A gesture of No is OK for me to stop, but a come-on of Yes is NOT enough for me to start, when we are talking legal standards.</p>
<p>Can we please have a dialogue please?</p>
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<p>Do you have a source for the repudiation?</p>
<p>SW, keep it in your pants and you won’t have to worry so much. ;)</p>
<p>And don’t grab a woman’s butt either unless she says it is ok. Leave a man’s butt alone too.</p>
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<p>Well, when it comes to college campus most cases of drunken “rape” is really two drunk kids having no clue and trying to have extremely unsatisfying and sloppy sex. Even the CDC study that the 1-in-5 crowd always quotes shows this clearly. It’s not like the norm is the boy gets the girl drunk. They both get drunk, can’t hold their liquor, passes out, wakes up, has sloppy sex, passes out, wakes up, and then thinks ■■■ Just happened? (Talk about awkward!) Anyone with college age kids here? Just ask them if what I am saying is not the case. By the way, the drunk girls are typically just as aggressive as the drunk boys. It’s hormones.</p>
<p>Anyway, that’s not rape. That’s just mutually idiotic behavior, but then if one doesn’t do idiotic things at 20 when exactly are they going to do it? I do agree that if one party is sober and the other is not, the sober party shouldn’t engage in sex. However, I have woken up in the beds of girls who I couldn’t remember and who were quite lucid and not in any shape or form drunk. I was happily notified that we just had sex. I said ewww and ran. Was I raped? Boys report cases like this in the CDC survey as well and in strength. I don’t see anyone upset over that!</p>
<p>If I had subjected myself to a 1% risk of death every year of my life I’d probably be dead now. That’s why I don’t subject myself to such large risks.</p>
<p>The chance that I’ll die of a road accident is around 1% for my entire life, but the chance that I’ll die of a road accident the next time I get behind the wheel is vanishingly small.</p>
<p>sowhat: Generally, sincere concern for a partner and putting their needs and desires first will elicit the enthusiastic yes. A partner who is feeling the enthusiastic yes, in turn, increases your pleasure because you are both really into it. It is probably not a very good idea to have sex with an unenthusiastic partner. For a whole lot of reasons.</p>
<p>Sure you can think of some counter examples, but basically I think that is how it works for most people. </p>
<p>Situations where you make agreements beforehand and have safe words are going to fall into a different category probably. That isn’t what most here are talking about. </p>
<p>[Well, when it comes to college campus most cases of drunken “rape” is really two drunk kids having no clue and trying to have extremely unsatisfying and sloppy sex. Even the CDC study that the 1-in-5 crowd always quotes shows this clearly. It’s not like the norm is the boy gets the girl drunk. They both get drunk, can’t hold their liquor, passes out, wakes up, has sloppy sex, passes out, wakes up, and then thinks **** Just happened? Anyone with college age kids here? Just ask them if what I am saying is not the case. By the way, the drunk girls are typically just as aggressive as the drunk boys. It’s hormones.
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<p>Sometimes the above is true.</p>
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<p>One…men are different than women.</p>
<p>Two… You are drinking too much. Cut the drinking down.</p>
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<p>I am a left libertarian (yes, there are such things). I believe in taxes and the social safety net, and in no govt interference on personal matters that don’t impact others. But I digress.</p>
<p>Expanding on #1529, making the standard of illegality defined by how enthusiastic a ‘yes’ is, then you have to define how much enthusiasm is needed for the ‘yes’ to be legal.</p>
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<p>You imagine it too. Imagine that at any time, any man can walk up to you and start doing intimate things to you. Any man can grab your crotch, or stick his hand up your ***, or stick his tongue in your mouth, or start removing your clothes. And you can say No after he does it, and he will stop, probably. This man could be a lot bigger than you, so that it’s quite clear he can overpower you any time he wants. This man has just demonstrated that he doesn’t care what you think, so you may feel that if you do say No, he will nevertheless continue, more violently.</p>
<p>Do you like this world? Or do you prefer the world where people have to keep their hands off your private parts without your permission? </p>
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<p>Source?</p>
<p>BoJ is working on improving the survey. The Census department tweaks their survey every year too - to make it better. Doesn’t mean they have repudiated past population figures in the USA.</p>
<p>See, it is this kind of stretching that makes activists look foolish. The BoJ has repudiated nothing.</p>