<p>This is just as stupid as saying that if a girl dresses conservatively and doesn’t drink she has nothing to worry about when it comes to getting raped.</p>
<p>There are plenty of unstable women out there. Plenty. Yes, they are a minority. A very small minority in fact, but still their absolute numbers are high. (This is the same as boys who deliberately rape, very small percentage, high number in total). These women would for sure use rape accusation as a way to get back at boys that hurt them somehow (but not in a criminal or even in a civil way) if the standard of proof gets changed to guilty until proven innocent. And since rape is largely he said she said, try proving yourself innocent. You won’t succeed. </p>
<p>What do you think college age girls are, anyway? Chaste virginal angels? In my experience they are no different than college age boys, a wide mix with varying levels of maturity, intelligence, and strength of character. </p>
<p>"20-year-old college students have been drinking to excess and hooking up pretty much since colleges came into being. You can read it in the Carmina Burana, in Rabelais, in E.T.A. Hoffmann, in Flaubert, in Waugh, in Mary McCarthy and Vargas Llosa. Mishima, Murakami, Dai Si-je.:</p>
<p>And non-college students, too. BTW, how’s that sexual harassment / assault in the armed forces – which attracts a lot of young men as well – going? Lots of dirt, there, too. </p>
<p>"I do think ‘college culture’ should be changed. College students must be forcefully reminded that they are there spending tens of thousands of dollars or their parents money or loan money to be educated to be able to be self-supporting adults. College time is not party time.</p>
<p>Too many parties, too much drinking, too many ‘hook-ups’ (which is promiscuity for both male and female by another name).</p>
<p>Perhaps colleges need to become more difficult. I’ve read that long essays and papers are no longer usual at some colleges. Assign more reading. Grade on a true curve. No more easy A classes. No more grade inflation.</p>
<p>That will keep the students in the libraries rather than at the parties."</p>
<p>I think this could be part of the solution. For $65,000 per year, they need to be learning something. Now there is an idea!</p>
<p>I am all for students having some fun, but it should not be one continuous drunken party. I am not suggesting that “grade deflation works” but rather it seems like there are big disparities among classes and majors. Students in science, math and engineering majors seem to be putting in a lot more hours per week than students in certain other majors. Frequently the assignments seem to be more time consuming and complex and the grades lower than they are in other majors. Maybe leveling that playing field a little bit would help to reign in the party culture. </p>
<p>Making matters worse, the most demanding majors also tend to have the lowest average GPAs. So students in other majors are getting better grades while studying less.</p>
<p>Making course a bit more challenging is clearly not a standalone solution, but it could be a part of a move in the right direction.</p>
<h1>1701 - I am still concerned with the question of serial rapists vs. rapists by circumstances. I see the “accidental” rapists in a different category altogether.</h1>
<p>I asked this before. Are rapists in the military, whether at service academies or as part of invading forces, serial rapists or is this learned behavior? So I like your comparison.</p>
<p>No, SoWhat. Non-consensual sex is avoidable. I believe men can make sound decisions. But not that they always do. Nor that it should be assumed they are powerless.</p>
<p>You’re the one who said more rapes get reported when the girl gets dumped, or words to that effect. Now you say, “These women would for sure use rape accusation as a way to get back at boys that hurt them somehow .”</p>
<p>Is that really your position? It is not guilty until proven innocent. It is (and Title IX demands:) take a good, hard look at this, seek to protect both sides during the process, and etc.</p>
<p>Title IX is not a hard read. Look for it and the “Dear Colleague” letters. Instead of doing reductio. Ie, there are some wingnuts, so it’s all about damaging guys, en masse. </p>
<p>A slogan I think is very helpful is: put a face on it. When you personalize it, people tend to want to help others. imho</p>
<p>Women speaking out about rape are personalizing it and changing perceptions. Pizzagirl benefits all of us when she is willing to describe her experiences on this thread, in an effort to further our understanding. Thank you, PG.</p>
<p>I think the normal parenting inclination is to be very discreet about drug use (prior or current) and sexual activity. Smart kids tend to figure out this out after a while. Though some do prefer to believe their parents “aren’t that sort of people.” :)</p>
<p>I find it has been difficult for my kids generation to rebel in an appropriately shocking manner. Some have had to become conservatives.</p>
<p>Both boys and girls can make sound decisions. That not what they do, and that applies to both sexes. Neither sex is powerless, or should be assumed to be powerless. So what’s your point?</p>
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<p>Yes, I speak from experience. No, no one ever accused me. But I have seen a close friend of mine try to destroy her ex through false allegations. Not cool. </p>
<p>I know that guilty until proven innocent is not the current standard in colleges. However, it seemed to me that you wouldn’t have a problem with it becoming the standard though, as, as you said: </p>
<p>Yes, the STEM guys party less. They know the profs are looking to clean house by 50% by the time of graduation. So there is less time for parties. But do we really want all nerds in our colleges? All STEM guys who do nothing but study? I am a dual major with one leg in STEM but my college experience would certainly have been diminished if my college didn’t have 65% Humanities and Social Sciences Majors. College life is not just about studying. Also, kids just don’t party. They also join organizations, follow their areas of interest, etc. I don’t think leaders are made by spending limitless hours in the library.</p>
<p>Both of my kids were in engineering and did their fair share of partying, particularly the one in a fraternity. You really can’t generalize on that.</p>
<p>I asked my senior counsel, and he thinks no way this would happen. My executive counsel thinks the same. </p>
<p>Why? Because colleges are losing due process violation tribunal lawsuits at a rate of 4 to 1 or something like that, not to mention the settlements that are never heard of and never make it to court. </p>
<p>Cannot imagine if the college defy the principal of innocent until proved guilty They would never survive. Not only will they lose on due process; they would ravaged by violating founding principals. </p>
<p>However, some idiot will float the idea and after the backlash it will be dropped.</p>
<p>“Why should rape be handled differently than other crimes on campus?”</p>
<p>Because of a misguided (imho) mis-application by the feds of title ix. The feds treat college rape as if it is an issue of sexual discrimination or harassment. That’s dumb. Rape is a violent crime and a major felony. It is simply not the same thing as grabbing someone’s butt or creeping around a girl. Note that title ix won’t protect women or apply to rapes that occur outside of the four years they happen to be enrolled in college. The policy is just really strange and ineffective.</p>
<p>So the feds unwisely require colleges to adjudicate major crimes in an expedited (within 60 days typically) and truncated way that is just dumb and often unfair. And it requires colleges to maintain and offer a list of menu choices for victims to choose from like they are ordering in a Chinese restaurant.</p>
<p>I’m fine if Dean Wormer puts naughty boys on double secret probation all day long without serious due process rights. But when you ratchet it up to accusations of felony rape (which could bleed over to the real criminal justice system) you simply can’t cut those corners. </p>
<p>You also dis-serve the tramautized victims by neutrally presenting them with a bunch of options. If my daughter is a victim, I want the school to encourage her to go immediately to the hospital/police. She can decide later whether to press charges or not.</p>
<p>“Why? Because colleges are losing due process violation tribunal lawsuits at a rate of 4 to 1 or something like that, not to mention the settlements that are never heard of and never make it to court.”</p>
<p>I’d be interested in learning more about this, awcntb. Why are they losing? What forms of due process violations are most prevalent? </p>
<p>Are the same standards used in the college hearings if a student accuses a professor of sexual assault? I understand that is a Title IX violation as well.</p>