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<p>You didn’t answer my question. Do men lie more often than not? Yes or no?</p>
<p>Please, remember, just Yes or No, as you yourself originally asked.</p>
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<p>Irrelevant. We are not talking about all men, only the subset of men who have been accused of rape. I think that men who are falsely accused of rape tell the truth, and men who are truly accused of rape lie. </p>
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<p>Yes, I did say pretty much what you quote above re the current Jackie case (thanks for remembering I forgot I said that), but what I stated does not apply to this herpes example for several reasons: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>This was in the very early 80s - there was no internet or national media to spread the my buddy’s name all other the planet. Thus, there was no trail at all.</p></li>
<li><p>The girl did not file a complaint with the school, did not tell the story to media, and did not tell any dean or anyone in authority anything. She was just going around saying to people, i.e, we called it gossip back then.</p></li>
<li><p>Following the facts of 1 and 2 above, there was no need for an investigation, as there was nothing to investigate.</p></li>
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<p>I suspect if a female did the same today, say at UVA, the result would be similar, since giving someone herpes is not a felony and definitely not a crime.</p>
<p>The one exception I would say that would apply today is if the female accuser tweeted this information or placed it on Facebook or a blog. Then it would be on the Internet, and I would think she would sued for in civil court if it were false. </p>
<p>But even then, I can speak for myself, that if I ran across this info associated with a resume, it would have zero effect on my decision because someone having herpes and giving it someone is not a crime, and not a reason to not hire. Herpes is not a disqualifying health issue for any job we have. However, someone possibly being a rapist and with such a allegation hanging out there, even if false, is a reason not to hire. </p>
<p>Therefore, my comments on both situations, Jackie and the herpes case, stand and are not inconsistent with each other, as you imply. Nice try though - better luck next time.</p>
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<p>Is this what happens at some schools? It certainly isn’t what happens at UVA from the articles that have been linked to in the past 2 weeks. Several accusers pointed out how alleged assailants were given many more “breaks” than they were (eg lawyers vs no lawyers, law school students vs regular students, representation vs no representation, cross examination vs no cross, etc). I don’t have the time or inclination to go find the links again but I know what I read. </p>
<p>Maybe reasons like that are why the school is one of only 12 in the country being looked at most closely for TitleIX violations; because they didn’t do some of the things you listed in your quote??? I dunno. Just postulating.</p>
<p>Not to go all Tea Party on you guys, but realize that only 6.4% of the U.S. population is enrolled in college. </p>
<p>So all this extra federal protection/oversight regarding sexual assault in colleges does absolutely nothing for 94% of the women in our country. They all have to rely on just the cops. Only college gals get access to this parallel legal system created under title ix. And only college boys are subject to it as accused. </p>
<p>Was the DOE one of the agencies Rick Perry wanted to abolish? I can’t remember. Oops.</p>
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<p>Did I ask you?</p>
<p>Depends on the situation. </p>
<p>I don’t think men lie more than women in general. </p>
<p>They both lie.</p>
<p>I think most women tell the truth when they say they have been assaulted. </p>
<p>SoWhat, I want to return to this drunken animal sex you described last night:</p>
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<p>In this scenario of the two drunken people, is rape ever a possibililty? What if his animal urges took over, but hers didn’t? What if her animal urges couldn’t take over, because she was semiconscious and incapable of thought or action?</p>
<p>Please understand here, I’m not asking how you would prove that a rape happened here; that’s a different question. I’m asking, if two very drunk people are together, is it possible that one of them rapes the other one?</p>
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<p>What happened to giving an Yes/No answer like you asked TatinG? So I ask you again, Yes or No? No qualifications. Hey, if you ask a question in a black and white manner, you should be ready to answer it in a black and white manner.</p>
<p>Lol!</p>
<p>Wait, are we going to stop this train because someone won’t give one poster the answer to what some feel is an irrelevant question?<br>
No you didn’t ask me.</p>
<p>Thanks looking forward I think I saw that same statistic, but I was particularly interested in suits since the Dr. Colleague letter so the spreadsheet I linked worked for me, plus it often had links to the court documents. I do know that there are cases that were settled by the colleges before they ever hit this particular spreadsheet. The men are winning or the colleges are settling in the majority of cases which is not unexpected since few colleges had appropriate processes and procedures in place to launch adjudication of criminal cases. </p>
<p>Remember women are not suing the colleges…remember most of them don’t want to be near a civil or criminal court. They are filing their grievances with the OCR (Office for Civil Rights) under DOJ Title IX. So completely different things. </p>
<p>I have no idea how many women have filed grievances with the OCR. But I imagine that process will be similar to the original DOJ investigations. The DOJ will want to see that there are reasonable processes and procedures in place for hearing sexual assault cases and that the colleges are following those processes and procedures. If an investigation indicates there has been a violation of Title IX by the college, the OCR attempts to obtain voluntary compliance and negotiate remedies. Only when it cannot obtain voluntary compliance does OCR initiate enforcement action. Enforcement usually consists of referring a case to the Department of Justice for court action, or initiating proceedings, before an administrative law judge, to terminate Federal funding to the recipient’s program or activity in which the prohibited discrimination occurred. </p>
<p>Maybe women are filing civil suits, but I doubt it (only because most of them didn’t want to go to the police). I’m not sure they entirely understand what is happening when they file Title IX grievances…which are about the college or university with the absolute worst outcome being the college or university could lose federal funding.</p>
<p>And as a reminder Title IX under Title IX guidelines, harassment is considered to be conduct that creates an impermissible hostile environment if it is “sufficiently serious that it interferes with or limits a student’s ability to participate in or benefit from the school’s program.” Less severe conduct with sufficient repetition may rise to this level, while even one incident (example rape) that is more serious may rise to this level. </p>
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<p>It’s absolutely possible, and the reverse is absolutely possible as well e.g., he is passed out with a limp you know what, she works on it voraciously to bring it back to life but with glassy ideas and with no idea of what she is doing and just going through the motions. This is something I have seen myself. I have seen just the reverse as well. The sober among us (myself usually included) would just separate the two. Sometimes people would take pictures before separating which I think is totally wrong. And likely illegal. I never took pictures.</p>
<p>Mom3, some women are suing the colleges, per the other resource. And we don’t yet know, afaik, what proportion of the whole are being won. Only those highlighted.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, my counsel says the 60% loss rate number just seems old to him.</p>
<p>Based on the legal gossip going around, he believes colleges are losing up around 70% now. The reason is that with this media hype that Title IX is an easy path to go after the accused, accusers forgo filing a real police report and ask for adjudication via Title IX. </p>
<p>Therefore, reports that would have gone to the police and possibly real charges filed and evidence taken are now lumped in under Title IX, which means serious rape cases are dealt with in the same way as a female accusing a male student of stalking her after they broke up.</p>
<p>He did state this number includes settled cases because for the school a settlement is a loss, since they pay out the money anyway, even if there is no verdict of them losing. And in settlement case, the schools are being forced to help get the caused into an equal or better school and there can be no statement in the academic record either.</p>
<p>One other aspect that he threw in is there are zero records of the schools paying males NOT to file and just go away. That is happening too. There is no case at all on record there, but the schools are dishing out money any way. </p>
<p>Ergo, schools are not going to be able to keep this up very long. They are bleeding hard cash and getting nothing for it.</p>
<p>SWDY, Somewhere around 92 percent of the women tell the truth and a poster was posting about women lying. Think about the numbers. ;)</p>
<p>If somebody goes to the police and says they were sexually assaulted by you, and it ends up un court, and I am on that jury, you better have a very good case. The numbers aren’t really 50/50. </p>
<p>Have your lawyer ask prospective male jurors if anyone uses dstark as a screen name. You aren’t going to be happy with me. :)</p>
<p>I would ask prospective female jurors if anyone uses TatinG as a screen name. I think that would help you.</p>
<p>Obviously I don’t agree with TatinG often but I am glad she posts. Her daughter kicks butt. Her daughter is going to keep doing well. If anything bad happens to TainG 's daughter, and I hope nothing bad happens and nothing bad will happen, TatinG will want me on that jury and not those writers that she linked today.</p>
<p>I don’t have that much experience in court, but I sat on a jury a few years ago in a case about an old lady. All the female jurors said the old lady could go to hell while all the male jurors disagreed. I thought the case was kind of a close call. 
The guys eventually caved. Otherwise…the case would have been hung.</p>
<p>OK, I’ll have to go look back at the spreadsheet. Haven’t done that in awhile. I think the point is that colleges and universities probably should be making decisions on criminal cases BUT people also have to understand that it’s at their discretion how they adjudicate as long as they follow process and procedures. I also have no qualms that any of my boys will be kicked out of college for having wild monkey sex with some drunk woman who a year later decides she was raped. No college wants to be sued and no where in the DOJ rules does it say that the colleges have to kick a kid off campus. If they did and they violated one single procedure or the evidence was so flimsy to be laughable I’d pay for my son to sue the college. As someone pointed out the people hurt in all this are the women who feel like they didn’t get what they wanted from the college and the men who can fund a civil lawsuit if they are railroaded and perhaps in cases of actual legal rape, the community who gets a rapist who wasn’t prosecuted.</p>
<p>Wait a second, SoWhat. You now agree that not only can one drunk person rape another drunk person, but you have seen this with your own eyes.</p>
<p>If you yourself have seen rapes and attempted rapes, why on earth are you trying to tell us they are rare?</p>
<p>So what can be done to bring down the incidence of rape and sexual assault in college campuses? Several people have suggested many draconian ideas, like chastity belts for all under 21, chocolate-milk only campuses, and changing the upbringing of boys to keep it in their pants. I have some alternative thoughts that I would like to present and get some feedback on.</p>
<p>First, I think we need start by defining rape and separating it from sexual assault. We can come back to sexual assault later, but let’s work with rape first. I am defining rape the way the FBI does, that rape is forcible penetration, period. It can be attained by force or threat of force, or by drugging the victim or getting the victim drunk so that she is legally incapacitated. With that in mind, I would first like to measure the incidence of rape on college campuses.</p>
<p>For this purpose, I will use the infamous 1-in-5 CDC study. Anyone who has read the study closely would note that per the above definition of rape, the incidence is less than 1% per year, which I will round up to 1%. This means on any given year, more than 99% of girls will NOT be raped.</p>
<p>This is a very low incidence. But we can lower it further. About half of this 1% is pure use of force, the rest is drug and alcohol related. The easiest way to stop this is to - you ready for this - stop binge drinking by encouraging healthy, normal drinking like adults do. College Presidents want to lower the drinking age, because they know prohibition doesn’t work.</p>
<p><a href=“College presidents want lower drinking age - USATODAY.com”>http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-08-18-college-drinking_N.htm</a></p>
<p>However, just lowering the drinking age is not enough. Boys and girls will have to build up their alcohol tolerance as well. In this respect, I recommend that we lose our Puritan morality and follow the Europeans, who start giving alcohol to kids when they are in middle school. By the time the kids are in college, drinking is no longer a novelty, the kids have all developed a good tolerance, and they are far better prepared to drink responsively.</p>
<p>Note that the incidence of binge drinking among teens is far lower in Europe comapred to the USA.</p>
<p><a href=“U.S. teens worst in western world for binge-drinking, drugs and violent deaths | Daily Mail Online”>U.S. teens worst in western world for binge-drinking, drugs and violent deaths | Daily Mail Online;
<p>This will cut down the current already low incidence of campus rape by a whole 50%. OK, may be not, as some kids would still binge drink, but it will cut it down significantly without a dobt. </p>
<p>Let’s discuss this for a bit and we can come back to the remaining half percent - use of force - later.</p>
<p>So we can solve the campus rape epidemic by only counting the rapes? Interesting. </p>