<p>^ Yeah, my parents often (read: always) have a glass of red wine (or two) in the evening. But there really is no noticeable difference. Neither one has ever gotten drunk as long as I’ve known them, so I wouldn’t know how loud or talkative they get.</p>
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<p>Oh yes, because no one ever drives drunk anymore…</p>
<p>piccolojunior, “slippery slope says hello”? That’s exactly the stupid confidence I’m talking about. I’ve made my point clear: you don’t know drinking is a waste of time if you haven’t done it because all that drunkenness is is a sensation. Hell, your argument works both ways. I’ve seen pictures of space, it probably looks black with a few fireballs scattered every so often, why would I want to go there? I’ve seen the eiffel tower on television, why should I see it in person? Is your friend slippery slope helping you now?</p>
<p>Baelor, shame on you for that shot of gin (“straight-up,” sounds like you want to impress us or something…). I don’t see how you could have taken that shot of gin and still say what you’re saying. We don’t know how far we’ll go? Because we’re all monsters that can’t control our actions, right? You come off as an arrogant person who believes that humankind is stupid and needs to be told how to live. I know we need laws to stop things like murder from happening. The laws for jaywalking and the drinking age even serve their purpose. But some laws are less important than others, and you’ll find that breaking those laws safely, even consistently, won’t bring harm to anyone. </p>
<p>You have a problem with drunk driving, vandalism, and disorderly conduct of drunks. So do I. But this isn’t what underage drinking is. Notice that nothing is stopping people of legal age from doing these things (and they do). And these problems aren’t solved. </p>
<p>I’ve ignored your comment that you have no problem with underage drinkers and that they can’t drink whenever they want, because that’s clearly a huge contradiction with everything else you’ve said.</p>
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<p>Yah ma dude slippery slope still got my back, because neither of those examples have anything to do with this conversation. Besides, seeing something and ingesting something are two different things. GG</p>
<p>I thought you used the slippery slope example to say “you haven’t tried murdering anyone so you couldn’t possibly know it’s bad.” You can’t get much more different than ingesting something and shooting someone in the head.</p>
<p>“Well if you’re not willing to risk skydiving for yourself, you can’t expect anybody to convince you that it’s worth it. What can they tell you besides what you already know?”</p>
<p>Well, they can tell you how they feel when they’re experiencing it (sky-diving, or drinking). And that enables a person to see what makes it good in the other person’s eyes, even if you yourself would not do the same thing. </p>
<p>The judgment factor, whether you do something or not, comes from putting the pros of that experience that the other person has told you about with the risks of getting that experience. </p>
<p>It ultimately depends on the person who drinks, how they drink, and what they do when they drink. There are some people who I think are more likely not to get into trouble when drinking, and others who nearly put themselves in more risky situations (or do actually get into those situations), and others that tend to get caught all the time whether the situation was really bad or not.</p>
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<p>Going into space or visiting the Eiffel Tower are things that you may only get to do once in your lifetime. They are memories that will last with you until you die, and you will never experience those feelings again. Plus there’s more than just billions of scattered fireballs out there; there is the Earth, our home planet, which is a sight so beautiful that you will never forget it.</p>
<p>Drinking, on the other hand, um… can happen several times a day if you’d like it. You may have fun, but will you remember how fun? Will your memories last you a lifetime? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>Going into space and drinking are sort of similar, too, because both harm your body. But I just explained the difference between them.</p>
<p>“Oh yes, because no one ever drives drunk anymore…”</p>
<p>Let’s eliminate the law completely, then revisit this statement. I’m sure you would find a difference.</p>
<p>“Baelor, shame on you for that shot of gin (“straight-up,” sounds like you want to impress us or something…). I don’t see how you could have taken that shot of gin and still say what you’re saying.”</p>
<p>I know, it was terrible. But then again, I can say what I’m saying because one shot of gin is the worst thing I’ve ever done in my life. And it wasn’t even a whole shot. </p>
<p>“We don’t know how far we’ll go? Because we’re all monsters that can’t control our actions, right?”</p>
<p>Yes, that is totally what I said. Please, explain to me how having a shot of gin in a controlled environment in the same as downing a keg and emptying over ten vodka bottles (put on Facebook), and then I’ll answer those questions. ;)</p>
<p>“You come off as an arrogant person who believes that humankind is stupid and needs to be told how to live.”</p>
<p>Do people drive while drunk? Yes. Do people get alcohol poisoning? Yes. Are there many crimes committed while intoxicated? Yes. So I don’t understand your point at all. Laws need to address the lowest denominator. Is some of humankind stupid? Yes. Then laws need to protect everyone against those people.</p>
<p>“The laws for jaywalking and the drinking age even serve their purpose. But some laws are less important than others, and you’ll find that breaking those laws safely, even consistently, won’t bring harm to anyone.”</p>
<p>People don’t break them safely. In addition, who are you to say what is safe or not? The government gets to make the decisions, if I remember correctly. So you’re right, if everyone broke them safely, then there wouldn’t be a problem. But they don’t! So now, we need to enforce them stringently for everyone.</p>
<p>“But this isn’t what underage drinking is.”</p>
<p>Your parties sound really boring.</p>
<p>“I’ve ignored your comment that you have no problem with underage drinkers and that they can’t drink whenever they want, because that’s clearly a huge contradiction with everything else you’ve said.”</p>
<p>The fact that you dismissed it shows that you don’t really understand what I’m saying at all.</p>
<p>IF ALL THE KIDS DRANK SAFELY, DO YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE A LAW? NO.</p>
<p>I only care about the consequences, including self-harm. My argument is completely internally consistent.</p>
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<p>Well…depends. If you’re the next ted bundy then there might be some ingesting of entrails involved.</p>
<p>FYI.</p>
<p>In 1993, Henry Wechsler of the Harvard School of Public Health, conducted a nationwide study of almost 18,000 college students and their alcohol use, behaviors and opinions. This study provided the first comprehensive view of the widespread abuse of binge drinking by college students (Wechsler, 1996). There are several key findings about binge drinking from the study:
*Eighty-four percent (84%) of students surveyed drank alcohol during the school year with almost half, 44% categorized as binge drinkers and 19% as frequent binge drinkers."</p>
<p>Oh woop de doo. An average of 84% of college students drink alcohol. Why? Oh, gee. It’s really not such a big deal, sorry. High school students getting drunk daily? Ridiculous/stupid. But by the time you are in college, you are responsible for yourself. It still is stupid if you can do nothing but drink. But college is a time where you do stupid stuff and still get forgiven for it (unless you drink and drive. dumb move at any time). So what if you get drunk underage once or twice? It’s not much better than getting drunk legally in Mexico when you’re 18 on spring break. The appeal of drinking; has nothing to do with being cool. The appeal of drinking stems from the idea that you actually <em>want</em> to be stupid for the time being. Not everyone always wants to be soo high strung like us fellow CC’ers. While many people can achieve stupidity without drinking, several ease into this through drinking. </p>
<p>Memories don’t come from the times where you studied hard and got straight A’s. They come from the times where you often do stupid things, and learn from them. So what if college students learn it the hard way, by drinking, hooking up, and getting awful hangovers? Well they might as well do it now, because if they are making those decisions as 30 year olds, they are deemed irresponsible miscreants with no futures by society.</p>
<p>Actually Baelor, my monster comment was directed at your saying “you don’t know how far you’ll go” once you drink underage. So my point is kind of your response, one shot of gin isn’t the same as “downing a keg” (do you know how much is in a keg?). If you’re responsible, drinking can be fun.</p>
<p>My parties aren’t really boring. That comment was addressing the difference between underage drinking and drunk driving, so I don’t know what you’re getting at by saying that.</p>
<p>And the fact is that there are people of legal age who don’t drink safely, probably just as many as underage drinkers. So I think the law equates irresponsibility with a younger age. If you trust the government to tell you when you’re responsible and ready to drink, good for you. You probably aren’t ready to drink if you can’t think for yourself.</p>
<p>And I agree with fa-la-la-lena’s last comment. First of all, if the people who are talking about not making memories mean that you forget everything you do when you’re drunk, then it just shows that you really aren’t capable of judging whether drinking is worthwhile. Of course visiting the Eiffel Tower is a once in a lifetime chance for some people. But our daily lives aren’t made up of once in a lifetime chances. Are you going to remember going to the movies one Friday night four years from the time it happens? Probably not, but that’s not an excuse not to do it. Sometimes you have to live for the moment. If drinking responsibly and having fun is what you want to do, why not do it?</p>
<p>piccolojunior, I kind of agree. However, the point of this thread was to have a conversation. It is slightly obnoxious for someone to come in a tell them they are being self-rightous just for having a debate. Let them talk, and if you have a problem, but don’t look at this thread.</p>
<p>“Actually Baelor, my monster comment was directed at your saying “you don’t know how far you’ll go” once you drink underage. So my point is kind of your response, one shot of gin isn’t the same as “downing a keg” (do you know how much is in a keg?). If you’re responsible, drinking can be fun.”</p>
<p>More than a single person could drink (I would hope). Yes, responsible drinking can be fun. I agree totally.</p>
<p>“And the fact is that there are people of legal age who don’t drink safely, probably just as many as underage drinkers. So I think the law equates irresponsibility with a younger age.”</p>
<p>Is that an erroneous conclusion? Young people tend to act more irresponsibly, and don’t have as much experience with drinking. Just look at driving statistics: Experience is completely relevant to responsible and capable use. Drinking isn’t driving, but I think the trends speak volumes. Also, federal and independent studies have shown that teens are very responsible alone, but tend to take many more risks when there are friends present. Responsibility may be a trait that many young people share. But there are a lot who don’t. Take a poll of everyone to see how many people binge drink regularly. What would the results be?</p>
<p>“If you trust the government to tell you when you’re responsible and ready to drink, good for you. You probably aren’t ready to drink if you can’t think for yourself.”</p>
<p>You’re right, the people who need to government to tell them what is acceptable and what is not are not responsible individuals. I think that you don’t understand what I’m saying, because I definitely do not think that the law is the right one. But I recognize that it IS, in fact, the law. I’m not saying that 21 is the right age to drink. I’m saying that underage drinking is against the law, and there are legal consequences as a result.</p>
<p>“If drinking responsibly and having fun is what you want to do, why not do it?”</p>
<p>It’s illegal. The end.</p>
<p>Please understand what I’m saying. I’m not saying that the law is right. I’m simply pointing out the fact that it exists.</p>
<p>All I hear is lots of self-righteous from both sides, can’t we all just agree that almost everyone in the world is stupid, or wants to be stupid just for (mediocre) lulz?</p>
<p>Baelor, “The law convieniently solves all of them” implies that they are not a problem any longer because of the law. That is simply not true. The law helps reduce these problems, which I agree with. Your comment insinuated they have been eliminated, which I had a problem with.</p>
<p>“Baelor, “The law convieniently solves all of them” implies that they are not a problem any longer because of the law. That is simply not true. The law helps reduce these problems, which I agree with. Your comment insinuated they have been eliminated, which I had a problem with.”</p>
<p>Have we then reached an understanding?</p>
<p>Yes, your response to me indicates a miscommunication was the fault, not a differing of ideas.</p>
<p>Yes, I should have been more clear.</p>
<p>We all make mistakes.</p>
<p>o_O
you know rat poison is in cigars right? obviously the cigar isn’t purely rat poison, but it’s part of the ingrediants</p>