I don’t necessarily disagree, but this source is the UCI campus newspaper. If they choose to write about the commuter experience, I will not judge.
btw: UCI even has a “commuter lounge”!
Agree with you.
I love UCI and think it’s great. But everything you point out is true which is why if I was OOS, I would not go there.
However, using the 57% of all undergraduates not living in campus housing = 57% commuter is likely inaccurate, even though the percentage of commuters is likely higher than at some other schools (18% of frosh who are not living in campus housing probably indicates the percentage of commuters). That incorrect interpretation does not affect what is written about students who are known to be actual commuters.
The “suitcase” subset of resident students is another issue to be considered.
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btw: UCI even has a “commuter lounge”!
My undergrad and my graduate schools also had commuter lounges. It was no big deal because those were the popular places to be.
UC Davis does have a commuter lounge and it has a huge coffee shop and my daughter spent a lot of her dining dollars there getting coffee because it was pretty central.
I believe that FIT is ultra important to graduating happily in four years.
People on this website know that I sing high praises for UC Davis.
They have a phenomenal premed/ health advising department. Our daughter utilized that organization fully, and became an “officer” in the club. She used their clinical leads to interview for a position in a student-run Diabetes clinic for medically indigent farm workers without insurance.
Since the school is in an agricultural area, there are lots of opportunities to volunteer at nearby low-income clinics.
She got into several medical schools including, where she attended, UCSF.
Davis is a very collaborative environment -the students support each other. Everybody looks happy there. There are 40,000 bikes on campus and the professors are seen riding to their classes on bikes.
All that being said, after the experience our daughter had there, which was wonderful for her, and at UCSF, I just can’t reason the high costs for an out-of-state UC. Especially when you have a school like Michigan.
The reason you’re asking about making a decision is that you may be feeling some guilt towards the cost. Deep down inside, it’s bothering you because your parents will be shelling out a fortune. Deep down inside, however, you want California because it’s not Michigan and Home. If your parents couldn’t afford the school, then there would be no discussion and you know where you would be going.
My 45+ year old doctor, just finished paying off his medical school loans.
We were fortunate because our daughter attended Davis and saved us a lot of money; we put that money towards her graduate level studies. We didn’t know she was going to go to med school and she did.
There are a lot of costs associated with going out of state as a future med student/ undergrad. Lots of travel/ lots of tests and fees with those costs.
Just be really sure that this isn’t going to adversely impact your parents future financial status.
If you haven’t visited Irvine yet, you’ll notice a big difference between Davis and Irvine. Every UC is vastly different. Each one has a different personality.
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Forgive me if I missed it, but is the attraction of the UCs the fact that you want to leave Ann Arbor, or is there something about Davis and Irvine that really motivates you? Did you apply to any other schools outside MI that are in the running?
Do you have some idea which medical schools you might want to attend? Do medical schools have “feeder” pre-med/biology programs (I’d love to hear from any MDs on the forum)? Have you looked at the med school placement data for the three schools under discussion?
Have you thought of a “plan B” in case you change your mind about med school half way through undergrad? It is a long row to hoe, and after seeing what is required - not just in med school, but through residency - you may choose a different path, regardless of whether you make the high hurdles academically.
I understand you wanting to pass on UofM; we live in SE MI and my son applied to their engineering school only because it would have been sacrilege not to. He never had any desire, however, to go there. (My wife chose MSU over UofM for undergrad; message me if you want some good UofM jokes.)
It is great that your parents are willing and able to cover any undergrad program you want. Have you broached the subject of applying any savings from UofM toward your med school? If you are on the hook to pay for med school that money would look pretty good.
Good luck to you, wherever you land.
Yes, sorry, I am thinking solely in terms of marginal differences.
So, Michigan is also a great school, including for pre-med. As is UCI, so I see little marginal difference there.
In terms of social life and events on campus, frankly I would rate Michigan quite a bit higher based on what I have read about UCI, but let’s zero that out as well.
That leaves UCI being a good base for visiting Orange County attractions occasionally (understanding most of the time the OP will be going to school or doing things on or very near campus). Fair enough, though, being in UCI has that difference.
That difference will then cost the OP approximately $160K more than Michigan.
So that is my question to the OP, is being well-located to visit Orange County attractions occasionally worth $160K to the OP? And that is up to the OP, of course, but to me that would be a lot of money for that specific purpose. Indeed, we are willing to be full-pay private for our kid if he wants, but for me that had a string attached, namely it be for a school and not just a nice location.
But again, obviously UCI is also a very good school. But so is Michigan, so none of the $160K difference can really be credited to that.
Just for the record, if the situation was reversed and the OP was a California resident and it was Michigan going to cost $160Kish more than Davis, then I think that would ALSO be something the OP should think carefully about. Again, Michigan is an excellent college in a cool college town, but so is Davis. So would the difference be worth it? Maybe, but that is getting pretty thin to justify such a cost.
Well I absolutely agree, which is why she’s feeling guilty choosing the California schools.
I think with our own children, they would make the rational decision and stay in-state because they wouldn’t want to place that kind of burden on us. We could probably squeeze by and afford it for four years but why?? When a fantastic school is around the corner…
OP, I hope you’re planning on staying in the dorms at Michigan for, at least, your first year. The reason I say that is because it’s a different experience living on campus than commuting from your home. You will feel “away” from home.
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UC grad married to a UC-grad who went out of state for med school.
I’m going to be as blunt as possible: Michigan is the best choice if medicine is your current plan.
I love UCI and UCD as schools and very seriously considered UCI back in the day, but Michigan is the strongest of the three and assuming you stick it out in pre-med you need every single advantage you can get. Med school admissions are a game of margins. You need to have every little advantage the eke out the win.
Med schools will tell you they’re like everyone else, being holistic and only caring about performance of the individual, but I heard admissions folks straight up say that they considered rankings and prestige as part of that. Michigan has that.
Plus, and this is key: the odds of you getting into any ONE med school are low. I don’t know if the state of Michigan gives preference to local students, but there’s tons of competition in California for admission to our too few med schools. If you’d be advantaged in Michigan, and you’re serious about med school, then consider that.
Again, UCI and UCD are very good, very serious institutions. But consider this a game of thrones and you need to take every advantage you can.
And lastly, a bit of a “what if” here: most pre-meds end up going for something else. That’s just how it is. I’m not saying that you will, but most do. Michigan will give you many great opportunities outside of the core pre-med coursework, and TBH I’d give most of their research departments the edge over UCI or UCD. If this were Cal/UCLA over Michigan I’d be vacillating more, but otherwise Michigan is just a powerhouse.
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Davis is awesome for marine bio and dvm if you change your mind back towards those. I will say this will likely be the only time in your life you can try something totally new and different and live in a place of your own choice. Grad school/jobs will make the decision for you later on. Also, you can transfer to michigan after a year if you dont like Davis but going the other way you have to wait until junior year. Academically you are good either place. I’d say go and have an adventure!
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That’s a great point! I’m definitely happy that transfer is an option – we have many friends who transferred to UM when they realized they wanted to come home. I think that it’s also good that I have friends here in case I need to come back, making it less of a complete change in terms of social networks.
How would they know in the initial screening which is usually GPA sGPA and MCAT score…and is done by computer.
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Initial screening is only part of the path to admission. There are interviews, review of extracurriculars, etc.
Having a high GPA and MCAT is not unusual for admission to MD programs in the US. The median admit to any MD program has a GPA of 3.75 (including so-called “weeder” classes, often in brutally curved courses) and an MCAT in the nearly 90th percentile.
That means that for most students, you already are pushing 90th percentile among a pretty dedicated group. Every advantage matters. Having that fancy lab? Having something published with a well-known research team? Working at a well-known hospital?
I’m not saying that this is a massive thing, but when you’re applying to schools with average admit rates around 5.5% and your median cohort of admits is 90th percentile among that applicant pool, you want every single advantage afforded to you. Even if it’s just the resources and that little networking edge.
Edit: also to note that I heard that the undergrad program mattered per at least UCLA med school admissions folks, and my wife (who attended NYMC) had something similar said to her by an NYMC admissions person. Her application was marginal at best but she had good ECs and the ucla name didn’t hurt.
Again, it’s not all or nothing, but med school is a game on the margins. Take every little advantage you can get.
As someone who grew up in A2 myself, I can totally understand the desire to leave home even though it’s a great place to be as a kid. The world is much bigger than that, even when a world class university is nestled next door. I cannot tell you how many kids I knew who grew up with me there and decided to leave for a different school just because they didn’t want to stay in town anymore. Ann Arbor and the University of Michigan are synonymous and it’s very hard to escape one from the other. Having said that, have you considered what you could do to make it feel less like home? Could you agree with your parents that you wouldn’t be visiting very often, just like if you were away? Can you go on trips, study abroad, plan to go to medical school somewhere far away instead? it’s not just to make the practical decision of saving money, but the emotional decision of how to change how you frame your very fortunate situation. I totally understand the allure of California, which I love, but is there a way to do some kind of exchange? For instance, I have a nephew at UT Austin, who is doing a semester abroad in Washington DC and absolutely loving it having been in Austin his whole life. Everyone loves Austin! But maybe it’s different if you actually have always been there. Wanderlust is a real thing but there are many ways to achieve it. FWIW, i didn’t stay in Ann Arbor either even though I loved the town. Still do. But I am grateful to have expanded my horizons. This is a big decision, so consider every angle. Good luck!
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??? I’ve moved several times as an adult, always to someplace totally new and different. What is unique about being 18 and choosing a college? You interview for jobs all over the place- you end up somewhere new and different.
This really puts unrealistic pressure on HS kids to think that it’s the only time you can try new and different.
My almost 40 year old cousin is finishing a medical fellowship (specialty, sub-specialty, very long training) and is now looking at jobs all over the country. Went to med school in a different region than undergrad; residency was in a different place entirely; has done two different fellowships plus a two month rotation for specialized training, all in different teaching hospitals around the country.
There is nothing to stop an MD from “trying something totally new and different”, let alone someone who ends up in a completely different profession!
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Grad school, law school, clerkship, first law job, all new cities for me.
I finally came back to where I went to grad school, and only because my wife had a mature job here and we owned a house.
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That’s a good point. My wife and I moved in our 30s from SoCal to NorCal because we didn’t want to raise our kids in Orange County. It was a pain in the butt, but it was certainly doable (and got done!)
My wife and I have collectively lived in Japan, Korea, London, DC, NYC, SD, OC, and now NorCal since turning 18+. It’s not THAT hard to find opportunities to move around if you so choose. I know plenty of doctors who’ve moved up and down CA and even to other states. Sure, there’s licensing challenges at time, but it’s hardly a showstopper.
And PLENTY of MDs go from practicing medicine to other roles. My wife’s med school classmate is now heading up a medical software company after a brief career in EM.
One mantra I have in this whole career thing is: your first job is not your last job. Which is to say, you can change careers, you can change locations, you can change roles. Life can be as rooted or as changing as you make it (within practical limits.)
Heck, there’s plenty of practicing hospitalists who are basically full-time locums. I have a buddy from undergrad who was basically full-time travel for years as he figured out what he wanted to do in hospital medicine in general.
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Thinking this through for a few days, I think that this point is huge.
What I would do in your situation would be to go to U.Michigan and save $$$$ for medical school, but also very seriously consider taking a semester abroad.
Concerning the semester abroad, I would be nervous about taking premed requirements abroad. However, there are two ways around this. One way would be to try to take all of the premed requirements in 6 or 7 semesters, and take other classes during a semester or two abroad. Another option would be to do a summer abroad. I just took a quick look at Michigan’s “study abroad” options, and it is a very, very long list, which includes some summer programs. My understanding is that it is also possible to arrange for something abroad that is not specifically in the list on Michigan’s web site.
For someone going into a medical field, understanding a foreign language would be valuable. This brings up the option of taking a summer class for example in Italy or France or Spain, and trying to learn the language while you are there. This would certainly give you an option to see a different part of the world. There are also good intensive French programs in Canada. This would be a bit less exotic, but Montreal and Quebec City are quite nice in the summer.
Just a side note from the perspective of a parent with a daughter who is currently getting a DVM: Whatever people have been saying about avoiding debt in medical school applies even more strongly to anyone going on to get a DVM. Veterinarians do not make enough money to pay off a large college debt. Anyone going into veterinary medicine should make a very strong effort to get to the end of their DVM program and be called “doctor” with as little debt as they can manage.
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The debt thing applies even to physicians, to be honest.
My wife and I are still paying off her med school debt, nearly a decade after she finished med school.
It’s no joke, even with a decent MD salary. I can’t imagine having to also pay off some awful undergrad bill too.
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And you never know what can happen. A high school friend of mine had a pile of debt from an elite med school, and then developed an autoimmune disease that made it hard for her to work enough to pay it off. She had to give up a city and faculty position she loved, to move to a low-COL underserved state with a debt-repayment incentive.
I sympathize with the “familiarity breeds contempt” problem, but $160K is a lot of money to pay for a temporary change of scene, at a school that isn’t defensibly better in any other way. My CA kid’s best friends from her study abroad program were from UMich; she ended up visiting them the following fall, and was surprised how much she like AA and what a great quality of life the students seemed to have. (At least one of these friends was a CA kid who turned down UC’s to full-pay OOS for UMich. This is how all of these schools balance their budgets, but you’re not obliged to be part of that budget solution!)
I get it, but at this cost differential I do think giving up UMich is a mistake. If you don’t end up needing that money for med school, you can take a whole recreational sabbatical in California and have time and budget to do anything you want.
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Agree with you and as an extension, this assumes someone actually make it thru medical school and becomes a money-making physician.
Most people do not realize $160,000 at 6.75% interest is a nearly impossible amount to repay on an “average” American salary. At least with a home mortgage, you have a roof over your head. UG degree is just a piece of paper on the wall unless you can make use of the degree.
Edit to clarify $160,000 PLUS life costs after graduation (family, food, mortgage/housing, raising kids)…
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