<p>
</p>
<p>Did your mother teach you that it’s OK to cheat if everyone else does?</p>
<p>Lasma, did you read my reply to the other poster about jumping to hasty and erroneous conclusions?</p>
<p>Nope, xiggi, I’m rushed at the moment and haven’t read all five pages. I retract my statement and will check back in later. :)</p>
<p>I’ve found that challenging xiggi with some off-the-cuff comment is generally a bad idea. YMMV … but probably won’t.</p>
<p>“If a bookseller sells you books or gift cards and says you can return them to the store or use the card in the store don’t tell us that they do not have nexus.”</p>
<p>Sorry Tom, I’m really trying to understand. Could I have this again. If Amazon sells me a gift card and I use it at a local store then the store I use it at is an agent of Amazon … even if Amazon doesn’t even know the local store exists?</p>
<p>Here’s a good little video about how and why people rationalize dishonesty:
[RSA</a> Animate: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube](<a href=“RSA ANIMATE: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube”>RSA ANIMATE: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube)</p>
<p>It’s kind of a death by 1000 papercuts type of thing. </p>
<p>California state law requires residents to pay a use tax on goods purchased from out of state, where no tax was paid. There’s a question about it on the California state income tax return, so anyone who pays income tax in California should know about the requirement.</p>
<p>If a person chooses not to report it, they are violating the law and cheating on their taxes. Whether or not that is an “acceptable” level of cheating in the person’s mind is a different question. Most of us regularly violate laws at a level we consider trivial on a regular basis – for example, exceeding the speed limit on the highway.</p>
<p>So I might argue that driving 60mph on a road where the posted speed limit is 55mph is trivial… but I wouldn’t claim it was “legal”. And if I happened to be driving along at 60 on that particular road and then saw a highway patrol car parked by the side of the road up ahead… I would very definitely slow down.</p>
<p>True, but everyone who receives a shipment in California is not necessarily a resident, or subject to California income taxes. Students come to mind, as well as anyone dispatched temporarily to work in CA. With the complexities of tax codes, one should not overlook that there are plenty of cases that do not fit the norm, especially when dealing with different states and transfers. </p>
<p>What might appear to be cheating to the uneducated eye might very well be entirely legal.</p>
<p>PS Aren’t the RSA videos the best? The Sir Robinson one on education is a must-see. Hope everyone googles it.</p>
<p>I’ve been involved this issue from several different angles, as I am involved with a California-based business doing online retailing, as well as personally earning commissions as an “Amazon Associate” – and I frequently buy from Amazon as a consumer. However, because my son and grandson live in Seattle, I have always had to pay Washington State sales tax on items that are shipped to them, even if not on items purchased for my own use. </p>
<p>I think there are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up.</p>
<p>First, while of course there will be some expense to Amazon to track and account for tax – they have already been doing that for the states like Washington where they do pay sales tax. It is a very minor problem from a computer programming standpoint – it’s really just a a matter of entering appropriate data into a database. It’s a trivial problem compared to all of the other calculations that need to be made for purchases – such keeping track of discounts and credits, calculating affiliate commissions and royalties, various shipping options, etc. </p>
<p>Secondly, there does need to be a “nexus” with the state and Amazon has that through its affiliate network. So an out of state etailer that does not want to pay tax on shipments to California wouldn’t even run into the problem unless they opt to create an affiliate program; and event then they can limit their affiliates to certain states. (Amazon initially tried to cut off all its California affiliates, but I think they figured out pretty quickly that the value of the sales they would lose that way far outweighed the costs of collecting tax on the goods that ended up being shipped to California).</p>
<p>A third point is that the California law is not going to have much of an impact on small out-of-state businesses, because the law has a threshold as to amount of sales that need to take place. (I believe the law applies to merchants who sold more than $1 million worth of goods to California shoppers in the previous year and/or had had more than $10,000 in sales referred to them by California-based affiliated websites). That is not really a problem that the little guys on the net have. </p>
<p>As a California resident, I see daily the impact that the state deficit has on everyone’s life. College students and faculty are among the hardest hit. The states and counties need revenues from somewhere, and if the state cannot collect from retailers like Amazon… then eventually we Californians will be paying via some other avenue, whether it is an increase in state income tax rates, higher fees assessed for government services and benefits, or loss of those services and benefits and the economic cost that comes with that. </p>
<p>Additionally, the competitive advantage that Amazon and similar retailer have over local business is huge, and that is something that translates into lost business and lost jobs within the state. Collecting sales tax is not going to make much of a dent in that advantage – Amazon still has the advantage of convenience, volume, inventory management savings, and reduced overhead that comes with its online model – the only difference is that they will now be put to the same burden as anyone else who sells retail goods in California. I don’t think this will make much of dent in Amazon’s sales. But at least California taxpayer will no longer be put in the positions of subsidizing the loss of in-state business and in-state jobs that came with Amazon’s previous tax-advantaged status.</p>
<p>
Does this law mean if a CA resident is on vacation in Oregon and purchases a book he/she has to pay a Use Tax on the purchase? Or does this law only apply if the book is shipped into the state from OR?</p>
<p>I suppose it depends on where the book is used, after all, it’s a use tax.</p>
<p>NewHope- no think Barnes and Noble, They originally claimed BN. com had no nexus but you could purchase BN,com gift cards and use them in the stores and you could return BN purchaes at the store.</p>
<p>I was just giving examples of nexus. Amazon has nexus because they either have a facility in the State or they link to businesses located in a State who serve as their connection- as cal said their affiliate.</p>
<p>Here is what the California law requires for payment of a use tax:</p>
<p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>See: <a href=“https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/usetax.shtml[/url]”>Page Not Found | FTB.ca.gov;
<p>The state historically has done very little to enforce this tax against consumers – I don’t think they really care about the $1.50 you might owe for the book you bought at the airport before flying home. </p>
<p>But there was an article about people rushing to buy from Amazon before today – and someone was stupid enough to give their name and tell a journalist that they planned to buy $12,000 worth of appliances to furnish their entire home. See: [CA</a> Shopping Binge Before ‘Amazon Tax’ - Business Insider](<a href=“http://www.businessinsider.com/ca-shopping-binge-before-amazon-tax-2012-9]CA”>CA Shopping Binge Before 'Amazon Tax')</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the California Franchise Tax Board opts to have a few words with that Bakersfield couple – looks like they’ll owe about $1000 in use taxes, plus penalties down the line when they fail to pay. </p>
<p>(Advice: If you want to cheat on your taxes-- don’t brag about it.)</p>
<p>Calmom, that link from Dan Ariely was fantastic. I just watched the longer version.</p>
<p>That video is so much deeper than the Amazon discussion. It just explains so much about people. </p>
<p>The Amazon discussion is just a detail.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for posting the link.</p>
<p>I find it slightly amusing, Xiggi, that you like these lectures.</p>
<p>I like these lectures too. I prefer sitting in a lecture hall, being lectured by somebody like Dan, rather than sitting in a classroom with ten twenty year-olds.</p>
<p>But I might be wrong. Is there a website where I can watch a classroom of 20 year olds discussing dishonesty?</p>
<p>I am going to google and look for the video you suggested on education.</p>
<p>which link, dstark?</p>
<p>calmom, do you know why they have been taking the time to specifically request payment from me? My tax preparer said it could be because I own a business, or because of the amount I spend at Amazon, or business income…what do you know about that?</p>
<p>I ran a project several years ago dealing with furniture. Some of the tax we got from the customer and at other times we got it from the Carolina Furniture seller.
calmom is correct we are interested in big ticket items- boats, cars, furniture. computers etc. We had great success with purchase of medical equipment. I had no idea dentist chairs were so expensive.</p>
<p>Xiggi, </p>
<p>[RSA</a> Animate - Changing Education Paradigms - YouTube](<a href=“RSA ANIMATE: Changing Education Paradigms - YouTube”>RSA ANIMATE: Changing Education Paradigms - YouTube)</p>
<p>Saw this. Love it.</p>
<p>There is a longer video. I am going to check it out.</p>
<p>The upper class, the upper middle class to an extent, do teach that there
are divergent views. There is more creativity in the classroom. “That is where your smaller classes do help”. These kids aren’t taught to score higher on tests. There isn’t rote learning. </p>
<p>The rote learning is saved for the lower and middle class.</p>
<p>I am talking about this on an Amazon thread. Amazon is taking over everything. Lol</p>
<p>Anyway, great link, xiggi.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, this is what calmom posted.</p>
<p>[RSA</a> Animate: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube](<a href=“RSA ANIMATE: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube”>RSA ANIMATE: The Truth About Dishonesty - YouTube)</p>
<p>I kind of like the longer version better. Less banker talk in the longer version.</p>
<p>I already know wall street bankers are a dishonest group. :)</p>
<p>But the link is great. The link is a lot more than just bankers. </p>
<p>The longer version… Free Beer…</p>
<p><a href=“The Truth About Dishonesty - Dan Ariely - YouTube”>The Truth About Dishonesty - Dan Ariely - YouTube;
<p>Thanks. Viral worthy.</p>
<p>Amazon has been very good about which sales tax to collect. For example, Amazon charges the Washington sales tax rate for the delivery address. However, it does not charge sales tax on food shipped to WA addresses as unprepared food is non-taxable in WA.</p>
<p>Some states charge sales tax based on the business’s physical location in that state, which simplifies things. For example, before Washington started requiring retailers to charge tax based on ones delivery address, Office Depot would charge me a 9% sales tax despite my home having an 8.6% sales tax as its warehouse was in an area with a 9% sales tax.</p>
<p>I don’t get the argument that one shouldn’t have to pay local sales tax on items bought in another state because one isn’t a resident. I’d love to receive a refund of the 9% tax on groceries here in AL because I’m a WA resident, but it’s not happening. CA seems to be the only state that requires one to pay their home sales tax rate on a car regardless of where in CA one buys the car (OOS use taxes are another story.) Here in WA, no use or tax is owed if the item was bought in WA, regardless of the tax rate paid. In my county alone, many people will go to the Costco with the 7.7% sales tax instead of the ones with 8.6, 9.2, or 9.5% sales tax. In fact, the Costco with the lowest tax is located just barely in my county to take advantage of a 1.8% difference in the sales tax rate. Bonus points to the Seattle locals who know which Costco location I’m talking about.</p>
<p>Amazon has long had warehouses just across the CA/NV line in Fernley and North Las Vegas, NV, yet will not charge NV sales tax until 2014.</p>
<p>WA seems to be the only state with a sales tax exemption for residents of states and provinces without a sales tax, provided the goods will not be used in WA. This benefits Alaskans who will do their shopping in Seattle rather than Portland. In the WA suburbs of Portland, it is very common to ask if the customer is from Washington and thus subject to sales tax. Oregonians simply provide their state ID, the on which is then recorded and the sales tax is removed. Of course, there are many people who will have their relatives from OR, AK, or MT purchase big ticket items for them. While the state does have a use tax, it is had to collect as there is no state income tax. The state does collect the use tax on cars and will occasionally have raids near the OR/WA border to catch WA residents with OR license plates.</p>
<p>On the OR side of things, it is somewhat difficult to stop people from bringing tons of cans and bottles into the state to collect the OR deposit.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, I am glad you liked the video.</p>
<p>Calmom…thanks.</p>