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<p>LOL. What a brilliant fellow that Zare guy is. Oh wait…I mean hardworking. ;)</p>
<p>As I posted just a few posts ago- this idea of male = brilliance, female = hard work is well in place on CC , in the workplace, and in high schools. I suggest parents of daughters determine whether it is in place at your D’s schools before she decides to attend. As evidence of this bias on CC I offer…hmmmm…this thread will do quite nicely. ;)</p>
<p>Who here has been to school in the past few years?</p>
<p>Honestly, I have to say that trying to fight and say that girls are disadvantaged in the education system is quite ridiculous. Females may have a workplace disadvantage right now, but that is not based on current schooling; People in the workplace mostly went through school years ago. Girls are winning just as many (or more) academic accolades, and are really high achievers. Trying to act like girls are still disadvantaged at school is really just an invitation to a pity party. There may be data to back up the assertion that girls are STILL disadvantaged in schools, and I’m eager to see it. But what I see is a lower dropout ate and a higher college attendance rate for females in school RIGHT NOW, so you tell me whether that reeks of gender bias against women. Trust me, as a male, all I have heard through school (from both girls and boys, mostly boys) is that the girls are smarter than boys. Granted, this is a much different situation than those of many parents, but keep in mind, this is a much different world. It simply seems that on the whole, the perception IN SCHOOLS is that girls are academically superior to boys, whereas maybe in the workplace, the perception may be opposite. I’d like to see what the workforce looks like in 20 years, then we’ll see truly whether there is a gender gap in the schools of today.</p>
<p>I’m not sexist, I hate discrimination. But to say that gender bias against high-achieving females is in place, especially in high schools, is ridiculous in my opinion. I know plenty of EXTREMELY high achieving females who have been encouraged, and none who have been stymied or discouraged in their work due to gender bias.</p>
<p>This is coming from a male rising HS junior, btw.</p>
<p>curmudgeon, I’d like to be able to say that my characterization of Zare as “brilliant” was a subtle joke based on his editorial. For a moment, you had me thinking that I’d just fallen into the usual trap. But no, Zare is eyes-popping-out brilliant (although I’m sure he’s not waiting around for my assessment!)</p>
<p>diamondbacker, please read the last two paragraphs of my post #156. There’s considerable overlap in our opinions.</p>
<p>lkf725, I have chaired a department in the sciences at a large public research university. In discussions with the chair who preceded me, he remarked that he did not believe in “equal pay for equal work,” and that he had discussed this heatedly with a (male) graduate student of his, who took the opposing viewpoint. He also remarked that he needed to pay Prof. Y a relatively high salary because he had n children and his wife did not work (outside the home).</p>
<p>In my university, chairs recommend raises. When I examined the salary list, I noticed that one of the unmarried female faculty members had an anomalously low salary for her accomplishments and rank. I couldn’t address this within the zero-sum constraints on raises within the department, and so asked the dean for assistance with a larger raise from funds he had. I stated that I believed that this woman’s salary had been adversely affected by the fact that the previous chair, with a long tenure in office, did not believe in equal pay for equal work. The dean responded, “I don’t either.” In fairness to the dean I believe that he was simply confused. (Actually, “a confusion of deans” is the correct collective form, isn’t it? 
). The dean most likely was confusing equal pay for equal work (the law of the land, curmudgeon?) with “comparable worth,” which is not. </p>
<p>The offshoot was that the woman received an atypically high raise, but, as I reflect on it, probably still is not making what she should.</p>
<p>The discussion with the dean occurred in the last 10 years.</p>
<p>I keep thinking of those
[American</a> Girl® Dolls](<a href=“American Girl®: Shop 18” Dolls, Clothing, Playsets & More”>American Girl®: Shop 18” Dolls, Clothing, Playsets & More), when I see this thread. ;)</p>
<p>Are women in tech industries or in traditionally male jobs treated disrespectfully or subject to gender prejudice?</p>
<p>How should I put this. Yes.
Women are " hazed".
Exposed to inappropriate comments & behavior.
Women may be deeply resented, especially if there is a perception that men in the industry are losing jobs to women.</p>
<p>I feel this is going to change- when younger men, many of whom are being raised by more inclusive attitudes dominate in the work force.
However- a good portion of our work force are immigrants & while some may have a history of women making a positive contribution to business in their previous country, that is not always the case.
Some cultures may prefer women to be involved with home/family only & they are not happy having to work for a woman boss.
They may come around of course, just as those raised to think that only white guys work hard, but the women have to deal with a lot in the meantime.
For example- just in my industry- landscaping.
Lots of Spanish speaking men right?
Women are often the " bosses" the landscape architect that directs the work, but have you * ever* seen a Spanish speaking woman on the crew?</p>
<p>I also agree that many schools are still set up for linear learners, who are verbal with good writing skills, this is what our family experienced.</p>
<p>Girls who have different needs, who are not linear learners, who have extreme difficulty at school- but who do not * act out*, fall between the cracks. Students who won’t stand for a classroom that doesn’t meet their needs and act out , especially those who are minorities- frankly in our area are either targeted for discipline- or they are steered to special supportive programs.
One reason why my daughter attended her high school, was because of all the support programs in the area schools, they had * one* that allowed students who were not ethnic minorities to participate.</p>
<p>Her school has a good % rate of students graduating and who excel. However, from my conversation with recent graduates, particularly boys of * color*, there was too much pressure, not to succeed in the classroom.
There is some of that with girls, but not as much, I think the girls are more supportive of each other.
My daughter was in remedial classes as well as AP, and had friends from the remedial classes and friends from AP- and while they didn’t always do things together there was cross over between groups- I don’t think that happened as much with boys.</p>
<p>Our district is also interested in increasing vocational programs for students who " aren’t college material".</p>
<p>Before I start off on a diatribe about that- I do want to say that the programs they are considering are very divided by sex.
Construction and auto repair & Child care & cosmetology.
Not a lot of cross over or encouragement to do so between sexes.
Additionally, while construction & auto repair start off with a decent wage ( that tops out soon), child care & cosmetology starts at minimum wage if you are lucky and stays there for the most part.
I don’t think the school district takes seriously the notion that young women who aren’t headed for college, should be able to support themselves.</p>
<p>QM, that is a “telling story”. I appreciate you posting. I have one of my own.</p>
<p>My D was shadowing a cardiologist who thinks a great deal of her. He let her see things that boogle my mind even today. (:eek: I’d have been a puddle of pee.) So she was watching an open heart surgery (“Dad. I was close enough to touch the patient”. Good God, child, you didn’t. Right? LOL) and in the conversation between the male surgeon, my D, and the male cardiologist after the surgery the topic of women as surgeons came up in response to my D expressing an interest. Here is the direct quote as well as I can remember “Oh. Heart surgery is no place for a woman. Lifestyle choices would make it impossible for a woman.” What??? What is this? An episode of Little Hospital on the Prairie?</p>
<p>D held her tongue (mostly) but her view of the men dropped considerably. Did it change her resolve? Yeah. It ramped it up. ;)</p>