America's upper classes have gone AWOL

<p>will preface this that I AM AN ACTIVE DUTY SPOUSE.</p>

<p>Why not a draft:
1. Americans are partisan on whether we belong there. If I hear one more time I support the troops, but not the war I will spit. If you support the troops, then don’t say that what they are doing is wrong. Saying I know you are doing your duty, but what you are doing is wrong, is double-speak
2. Forcing someone to do a job that they do not want to do, is not a good solution…it only will add into the partisanship over the war
3. CINDY SHEEHAN. Cindy Sheehan paid the ultimate price. She lost her son due to war, but she paid a lot more. Her daughter is married to an Army NCO and publicly disowned her mother. Her husband for whatever personal reasons left her and they are now divorced. So now the Sheehan family has been shattered.</p>

<p>I don’t believe in a draft. My DH flies, if the jet goes down or there is a SAM on their A**, as a spouse I want to make sure they give a crap, and are not in the service b/c they had to! I want the crew to be there b/c they have this unspoken support…“I will die before I leave you” I want their adrenaline pumping, I want them to want to be there. I don’t want someone who says you made me and “I need to get myself out of here”… which one do you want? The one who wants to be there or the one forced?</p>

<p>Our system works we don’t need a draft.</p>

<p>I AM SORRY IF THIS CAME OFF WRONG, BUT IT IS INCREDIBLY CLOSE TO MY HEART B/C THE LOVE OF MY LIFE AND FATHER OF MY CHILDREN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS OF MY LIFE HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY THESE QUESTIONS.</p>

<p>What we should have our politicians talk about is having our college age children due to a GAP year for national service, be it military, peace corps, teaching, etc</p>

<p>As much as I really really hate to agree with Luigi:</p>

<p>From the above:</p>

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<p>I think the subject of compensation needs to be addressed. Unfortunately as they say the devil is in the details. When we were not at war retention was not much of an issue, nor was the size of our forces and yet in our current situation retention is certainly impacted by the duration of the war as well as the necessity for extended tours and rotations; a consequence of our diminished forces. </p>

<p>I recall comparing pay checks with a senior NCO that I worked with years ago; I had just made 1st Lt. and was just starting my third year in uniform. As I recall he had been in for for at least 12 years and was getting ready to pin on his 6th stripe. He had a wife and 4 kids; I was single. We made almost exactly the same money. I think any discussion about compensation has to focus first on the enlisted ranks first. Enlisted pay is pitiful and yes a disgrace especially given the circumstance they now face. </p>

<p>In terms of pay, it’s obvious not much has changed in the years since I left the service, so I can see why retention would be a growing problem given the duration of the war and associated sacrifices these young men and women in the enlisted ranks are making. </p>

<p>One theme that seems to be absent from the discussion of compensation is the notion of “deferred pay”, more specifically the fact that military personnel are eligible for retirement benefits after 20 years of service. I have to believe it’s hard for a 20 year old that is making next to nothing to look that far into the future, so that aspect of compensation may have little value during the early part of a soldier’s career and may not factor in to his/her decision to stay or leave. </p>

<p>On a brighter note I recently looked at the latest pay scales for officers and in contrast I was impressed. Factor in the potential that many of these officers pass through an Academy or ROTC scholarship slot and will graduate with no college debt and you have a very attractive package. I don’t think money is the main issue driving retention issues within the ranks of our Army and Marine officers. In that scenario I believe the overriding factor is time in the field and a lack of sensible rotations. Retention in this war time scenario can only be addressed through a larger force structure that diminishes the demands placed on the individual. </p>

<p>So what should we do? Given the anticipated duration of our commitments around the world I don’t see how we can continue without a substantial increase in our military ranks. And their pay will have to be addressed, perhaps along the lines of a substantial increase in combat pay to address the additional sacrifices during times of war along with an increase in base compensation. </p>

<p>There are many aspects of the war in Iraq that haven’t gone well because of poor planning with an inadequate force structure. The net result is extended tours and a major issue in retention. You can try and address retention through better pay, but other damage has been done. In the end the one thing you can’t change with money is the perception of broken promises, that our military and our government can’t be trusted to keep its word. “They told me I will just serve one tour and then rotate back to my family after 12 months etc, but it didn’t happen”. The need of the nation will obviously come first, but we need to go the extra mile to keep our word to these young men and women that have chosen to serve. </p>

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<p>Agreed. Perhaps the only individuals lower on the list of our nations priorities are our children. They can’t vote, they aren’t organized and obviously don’t have any lobbyist representing them so they are easy targets. If you want to talk about a nation’s ideals, what does it say about a nation and the politicians that lead it when the budget is balanced year in and year out on the back of those not yet old enough to vote? </p>

<p>Pay the military more, increase veterans benefits, provide much better care for our vet’s when they require medical attention; we can and should do all those things assuming “we” as in the current generation of taxpayers have the courage to tell our lawmakers we are willing to pay the freight today and not just pass the bill on to our kids. Take a look at even the most optimistic projections for Social Security, Medicare and then add in our national debt. As cited in that quote, it is indeed an outrage as we are guilty of generational larceny; we are stealing the economic well being and the future prosperity of our own children. That’s not something we should be proud of.</p>

<p>One very easy thing to do is to eliminate all Federal Income Tax for all active duty military personel.</p>

<p>some already make so little that they are exempt from paying federal income tax.</p>

<p>Members of Navy’s Southern California parents’ club buy used clothing and furniture at garage sales in Orange County and donate these items to enlisted marine families at Camp Pendleton. That just about says it all. These people are willing to sacrifice life and limb, not to mention their mental health, and they’re practically living in poverty! I think it’s a disgrace that American servicemen and women are so underpaid that they have to rely on charity just to get by. The really dirty little secret is the increase in the combat death benefit. Some just consider that ‘hush money.’</p>

<p>“I don’t believe in a draft. My DH flies, if the jet goes down or there is a SAM on their A**, as a spouse I want to make sure they give a crap, and are not in the service b/c they had to! I want the crew to be there b/c they have this unspoken support…“I will die before I leave you” I want their adrenaline pumping, I want them to want to be there. I don’t want someone who says you made me and “I need to get myself out of here”… which one do you want? The one who wants to be there or the one forced?” bulletandpima</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that aircraft mechanics who may have been drafted into service during WWII, Korea, or Vietnam were less than loyal to the flight crews of the aircraft they serviced? I guess my Air Force pilot father who flew over 50 combat missions in WWII just lucked out because his crew, whose loyalty you question, denied him a Purple Heart. You also single-handedly diminished the service and sacrifice of tens of thousands of drafted American soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who gave their lives in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Many were drafted, died in service to their country, and you’re questioning their motivation and support?</p>

<p>rjrzoom, again thank you for addressing salient issues.</p>

<p>I don’t think that draftees will neglect their duties (there will always be exceptions). The issue is about going the extra mile. A person who doesn’t want to be there is not going to stay late to make sure the job gets done, or meticulously check someone else’s work to ensure it was done correctly if they don’t have to. I see a lot of dedicated people going that extra mile. I have doubts on whether a drafted force would think the same way.</p>

<p>USNA09mom,</p>

<p>My apologies, I never meant to offend those drafted in previous conflicts, or those who served in any capacity, as they served our country honorably. I have the utmost respect for them and for their family for their sacrifices. My opinion was in regards to applying a draft for today’s military. I just believe the volunteer system we have now is the best solution (albeit requiring a few “tweaks”; I like the idea of being exempt from federal taxes!) for our current situation.</p>

<p>World War II was an entirely different situation than what we face today. The threat we faced then required an army (and Navy) numbering in the millions, and sacrifice on a scale back home we haven’t faced since. And as soon as the conflict was over, we could afford to drastically reduce that force. Korea and Vietnam may seem close to the events of today, but ask those who lead today’s military and their number one concern is their desire not to go back to the morale and retention issues they faced with the primarily drafted force we went to war with in the 60s and 70s. The vast majority in this position served their country proudly and honorably, with only a few exemptions who were there for the wrong reasons and who mostly caused the most trouble. </p>

<p>But today’s military leaders are looking for those who will perhaps stay beyond their commitment (training today’s force is an expensive requirement, we want to get the best return on our taxpayers investment). We have a better retention rate with the volunteer force. Ask the leaders; most would prefer a “professional” service of volunteers who are not just counting the days until their enlistment is up. (perhaps “professional” is not the best word, but it is the word most used to describe today’s armed forces).</p>

<p>The American public has never been asked to sacrifice materially or financially for the War on Terror. This has been our government’s greatest blunder. We spend billions of extra dollars without asking anyone but our children and their future to fund it. The biggest difference between the two major political partys is that one wants to over spend and over tax, and one just wants to overspend and not worry about paying the bill. I have said this before, had President Bush asked Congress to pass a 1 or 2 % national sales tax to fund the War on Terror he would have met with resounding affirmation from the American people. If he had openly asked for volunteers to join the armed forces to fight the war on terror he would have had even more recruits than we got with little need for persuasion. Amercians were eager to do something material after 9/11. Now we face our 5th year of deployment in Iraq with no gurantee of it ending any time soon, an under-deployment situation in Afganisistan, and the potential for other issues to have to deal with in the future. Compulsary service to boost the size of the ground forces available to meet these challenges makes sense. Pretending everything is ok with the troop levels we have all the while asking those brave men and women to endure 4, 5 or 6 deployments is absurd and not intellectually honest.
The biggest difference between WW2 and today is the level of mis-management and lack of competence for the first 3 and a half years of the war in Iraq. This was plain to see once we began to see the effectiveness of the “Surge” and the extra troops it brought to bear on the situation. Unfortunately troop levels are still not enough to maintain it. </p>

<p>The biggest challenges of the future are the one’s we don’t see coming. We need to be ready.</p>