<p>Scansmom-
I see families struggle with the limited resources and limited knowledge of Aspergers here. We do the best we can to help with diagnosis and treatment recommendations. This is a very big problem-- lack of social skill training resources, appropriate educational environments, etc. My concern is that sometimes parents push for a diagnosis even if the child’s presentation and test data dont support it.</p>
<p>Why on earth would a physician or psychologist make a diagnosis if the objective findings do not substantiate it?</p>
<p>Here is a very interesting related article that was in the paper today:</p>
<p><a href=“Long Island News | Nassau & Suffolk - Newsday”>Long Island News | Nassau & Suffolk - Newsday;
<p>I don’t want to get into a duel with Allmusic or Shrinkrap because I’ve been down that road before with Allmusic, and I know that although we disagree, she is intelligent, perceptive and devoted.</p>
<p>However, I want to reiterate that my S was a straight A student, and he stayed that way all through the second half of senior year (AP calc.) I have no doubt that he has ADD. I could outline why, but I don’t think anyone really wants to read that.</p>
<p>When I decided to have him tested his teacher was so opposed to this that she falsified (she told me she was doing this) the survey sent to her to block the diagnosis. She checked the highest box for him for every single skill even though he hadn’t had a teacher since first grade who hadn’t complained to me that he never finished his work.</p>
<p>I would not want to subject my child to needless medication, nor would I want him to have a diagnosis he didn’t deserve. However, there are risks associated with non-medicated ADD as well. Those with undiagnosed or untreated ADD are at risk for: substance abuse, criminal behavior, dropping out of school, and high risk behavior. </p>
<p>I did not need my child to perform at an Ivy level, but I did want him to be able to achieve what he would ha e been able to had he not had ADD. Of course, he can’t, not quite. ADD is not something one can totally “cure”. However, he did chair his HS mock trial team, quiz bowl team, and orchestra. He was a NMsemifinalist and AP scholar thingy. He has not had one day of extreme frustration since he went on medication. Before that, he was frustrated every day.</p>
<p>I don’t think teachers are always more insightful than parents, and I don’t think calling parents’ motives into question is the most productive approach either. I doubt anyone looking at my son from the outside would think he needed ADD medication, but they couldn’t have seen the suffering that homework brought into all our lives every single day.</p>
<p>Now, he composes beautiful music and plans to go to medical school. I think he will.</p>
<p>Just so you know, my son has been treated for “ADD” since he was four years old. The quotes help it make sense to me. With “treatment” he was able to stay in school (usually). My brother was neither diagnosed nor treated. He did not fare well in school but now makes more money then me as a film director. mythmom, do I sound like I’m dueling? I do that sometimes.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap: I hope he’s doing well. I didn’t mean to acknowledge Allmusic and neglect you. I had just been around this bush with her before and not you. Thanks for posting the above.</p>
<p>I agree that there isn’t a fail safe test that can be used to determine ADD or ADHD.
There isn’t such a test for MS either.<a href=“http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hscov0316,0,639084.story[/url]”>http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hscov0316,0,639084.story</a></p>
<p>"I hope he’s doing well. "</p>
<p>Well, it’s November and he hasn’t been suspended yet…</p>
<p>I actually became interested in Child Psychiatry after reading “Dibbs in Search of Self” ( about a boy with autism by Virgina Axline) in the 8th grade. I thought it was so fascinating that a solid organ ( brain) was responsible for something as ethereal as feelings and behavior. I was fascinated and wanted to learn about it, but never really thought about treating or “fixing” it.</p>
<p>
Exactly. You shouldnt. Many times symptoms look the same for many different reasons. For example, a child can be inattentive or distracted or impulsive due to a birth complication, or to anxiety, or to a mood issue, or to a sleep problem, or to a seizure disorder or a substance problem, to the side effects of a medication, etc etc. Most often parents bring their child to be evaluated to figure out what is wrong and what to do. Sometimes people do try to self diagnose, and may not always be correct. It happens. Often bright kids with ADHD can compensate for their difficulties until the demands of high school, with the greater need to be organized, to move easily from class to class with the right books and the right materials, to organize and time manage successfully enough to deal with the multiple papers and assignments thrown at them. But not everyone with these issues is going to meet criteria for ADHD. Does that help?</p>
<p>I know I have strong opinions, but want to also be clear here that I don’t mean to offend Mythmom, whom I also like and respect a great deal for her contributions to this board, and others like her, who really are doing what they feel is in the best interest of their children. Anonymous posters on a chatboard shouldn’t make people feel defensive for their own decisions, so I apologize for that.</p>
<p>I guess I should just put the caveat on all my posts on these matters that I believe deeply in careful, thoughtful, multi-disciplinary evaluations, and leave it at that.</p>
<p>Allmusic: No offense taken. I am holding up my end; you yours. That way readers can hear both sides. Healthiest situation I’d say. I don’t feel defensive. I do feel sadness that S has to sacrifice parts of himself whatever he decides, but life isn’t perfect for anyone. Any kid who can compose a string quartet as he did is doing okay.</p>
<p>Nothing to even quibble with in your last sentence. </p>
<p>And I held off pursuing this issue with my S for a year because it seemed so absurd, and I wanted things to just fix themselves as much as anyone else.</p>
<p>Tactile sensitivity is the term someone was looking for-people who can’t stand certain sensations on their skin–or certain tastes on their tongues or certain sound frequencies in their ears. This is not pickiness, it is things tasting or feeling or sounding like poison–being literally very painful.</p>
<p>I don’t care if anyone believes it. I have close relatives going through this. My ADD was nothing, is nothing compared to this and we could all come up with examples to trivialize the difficulties that ASD people face. It’s nothing compared to being in a concentration camp for example, but it’s a handicapping condition and just the diagnosis can help a lot. Helps us to understand why simple things are so difficult.</p>
<p>Hypersensitivity issues is quite common among individuals with autism (as well as those with ADHD); it’s referred to as a sensory integration dysfunction or disorder (or sensory processing disorder). And it can be diagnosed and treated through occupational therapy at very young ages. When S was young I pushed for an autism evaluation before he was 3 and he was finally diagnosed (with PDD - the Aspergers label came later since it was not even an official diagnosis at the time, and he was not your classical case of autism since he spoke in complete sentences before the age of 1). </p>
<p>My S also suffered from serious sensory issues. Although he let me hold him, he could not tolerate being held by others. But he could not fall asleep unless he was being held and rocked. Light touches such as tickling or hugs could set him into a rage. Loud noises would also cause meltdowns (I finally gave up on vacuuming in the house when he was home). Temper tantrums were a daily occurrence and sometimes lasted for hours. I often had to hold him in a basket hold in order to prevent him from hurting himself or others (or destroying the house). He would only eat certain foods, wear certain types of fabric and only in certain colors. Skinned knees were like the world was ending (and unfortunately autistic children especially those with Aspergers are often quite clumsy), same with eyelashes or dust in the eye.</p>
<p>I could go on and on about all these seemingly minor “differences” when looked at individually. Add to that the robotic voice he used when he was around other people (and which I never heard at home) - when he chose to talk to them, that is (usually he did not). Most people upon first meeting him just assumed that he was mentally ■■■■■■■■. It didn’t help that he would ignore everything and everyone around him; he would become so involved in his play that he literally tuned the world out - that was the only way he could focus on what he was doing.</p>
<p>Welcome to my world during the first 3 yrs of S’s life. Yes I knew that something was not right and I did finally persuade his pediatrician to refer him for an evaluation (his dr did not like to diagnose ADD until kids were just a little bit older, and autism was not really a serious consideration in his mind). And by getting that “label” he was finally able to receive therapy for the sensory integration issues - intensive therapy that helped his sensory system finally begin to process in a more normal way (but like autism, a sensory integration disorder never goes away). Imagine trying to learn when your body is in constant “fright, flight or fight” mode 24/7? And the sensory issues continued but as S has matured he has learned to cope, control and hide them better.</p>
<p>But these sensory issues, as well as speech delay issues, and delays in social skills, can be treated quite early - and the earlier the better. And that is precisely the goal of the recent AAP recommendations. As I mentioned, my S has MILD Asperger’s - now; nobody would ever guess there was something “wrong” with him and would merely think that he was a little geeky/nerdy/quirky. Except that he still continues to have difficulties with such Aspergery things as lacking empathy, missing or misunderstanding social cues and nonverbal gestures, rigid routines and repetitive/OCD like behaviors, not looking people in the eye or appearing as though he is looking right through them. At the same time he so desperately wants people to like him and is so anxious to please that he is somewhat vulnerable and likely to be used by others; the “unwritten rules” of friendships and social relationships are still beyond him. Yep, there’s nothing like being considered normal even though you know you are not - and the rest of the world treats you as though you are not, with or without a “label.”</p>
<p>scansmom</p>
<p>You could be describing one of my nephews. He also received very early treatment and has made great gains, but he basically has had to memorize appropriate social interactions. Inability to be dishonest (tell white lies) is also an issue.</p>
<p>Scanmom, you have described my nephew who is now 10 and in 4th grade (my sister had him repeat Kindergarten since he is a summer birthday). Although academically he is at the top of his class (he is a gifted math student and an amazing chess player…wins all his tournements) I am really worried what will happen when he gets to middle school. Adults frequently do not pick up that anything is wrong with him since he is so bright and so verbal, but other children notice the quirky seemingly self righteous air about him. The world is black and white to him and he is oblivious to fine nuances and shades of grey that make up social interactions. He has NO label as far as the public school system is aware of but my sister spent sooo many hours in his early childhood on his psychologists, occupational therapists, play therapy, and pediatric neurologists (who had diagnosed him as high functioning autism/PDD-NOS as a 3 year old). My sister micromanages every aspect of his life to assure that all goes well. She, a reading specialist/teacher by profession, always makes sure that he gets the “right” teacher (very structured) and has supervised playdates (with friends that she picks for him).<br>
What do you think middle school and high school will hold for such a child? Will he be alone socially when the hormones begin flowing? Will he be able to keep a few friends? Will he be the target of bullies? I worry for him and my sister (because everyone knows that a mother is only as happy as her least happy child).</p>
<p>Middle school and high school are difficult yrs for kids with Aspergers, especially the middle school yrs when they may be more likely to encounter bullying by other students. I think that some of the bullying and rejection they may encounter can be minimized somewhat if they are involved in clubs or activities where they can use their talents or passions to be successful and will also have opportunities to socialize with other kids who have similar interests. I think that is the most important thing, that they have opportunies to succeed. And through it all, to know that it is ok for them to be who they are. So continuing in clubs/activities that reflect their strengths (such as chess club, math club for many) is an important outlet for these kids. In addition, however, and if they are interested, it is important for them to get involved in other activities that might provide more social opportunities; often “quirky” kids are attracted to drama club, school plays and musicals. Working on the school yearbook or school paper can also be a good activity for these kids. Developing other interests outside of school. </p>
<p>I can’t speak for other Aspie kids and it’s hard to compare my S’s experience with anyone else’s. He is now almost 20 so was one of the earliest groups diagnosed with Asperger’s in our area, and as a result it has been pretty much unchartered waters for both of us (by the way, I was/am a single parent and he is my only child). I’d say that jr high was probably the most (self) isolating period of my S’s childhood; setting up play dates was no longer an easy option (not that it was ever easy) and this became a time when he frequently escaped the social and emotional stresses he was dealing with through video games or other interests/classes outside of school (rocketbuilding, kite-building, golf, but often activities he did on his own). He managed to get through those yrs without much bullying, perhaps by staying in the background so much? (and much of the bullying he experienced actually occurred during grade school). Sometimes I felt that, for him, school had just become a place where he went each day (much like his first day care, before he got kicked out for all his inappropriate behaviors; he then went to a Montessori preschool where he thrived). At the same time, I think he was going through a cognitive growth period during this time and was picking up a lot more of the social nuances and starting to make some sense of them through this period of observation than we realized at the time. Plus, he still stayed “involved” in the world of people through his continued involvement in many activities at school that he really enjoyed, such as math club, ski club, band. </p>
<p>He was also in the gifted program and the G/T teacher became one of his strongest allies all during jr/sr high school (same teacher at both schools. Another thought: Having an adult ally at school is also something that should be strongly encouraged and developed during the teen yrs even though it can be difficult when students no longer have the same teacher all day). During jr/sr high, the kids in the gifted program in our district participated in Destination Imagination. My S LOVED DI; it gave him opportunities to be creative, to work with other students as a team, and more importantly, to role play, pretend to be someone he was not, see the world from the perspective of others - develop all that “theory of mind” stuff (another great reason to get them involved in drama club!). </p>
<p>But it was finally in hs that my S truly started to find his niche; somehow during soph yr he “morphed” into a social butterfly - a quiet one, generally on the fringes, often drove others crazy when he was too stubborn, rude, and unbending, but at least he finally had wings…and had found a place to try them out among a lot of those “quirky” and “geeky” (and “normal”) drama kids.</p>
<p>It’s really really hard to say how these kids will turn out. There are so many factors that will influence their lives and how they experience the world (including how the rest of the world reacts to them). They are at a greater risk for things like depression/suicide and self-medicating through drugs and alcohol. We’re seeing more and more of them make it through the school system and go on to college, but still their chances of success after college, of not just finding but keeping a job, of being able to reach their true potential are nowhere close to that of other more socially “normal” individuals.</p>
<p>From a recent article about a college student at ASU with Aspergers:</p>
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</p>
<p>forgot the link in case anyone is interested:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.asuwebdevil.com/issues/2007/10/31/style/702521[/url]”>http://www.asuwebdevil.com/issues/2007/10/31/style/702521</a></p>