<p>“Special ed” doesn’t mean “stupid.”</p>
<p>Yeah, if my Aspie son was a little less bright, he would get special services. If he was getting Cs in regular classes instead of the occasional C in AP classes, THEN they’d see a problem. It is hard to convince folks to give special services so that a child can live up to his full potential instead of to just pass.</p>
<p>It’s allocation of funds and recources and like I keep saying, it is tough.</p>
<p>I wonder what the student in the original post will do when he or she goes to college. It will be sink or swim there. </p>
<p>I have a neighbor who came to the US from China when he was in early high school. He went to college and medical school and does great. He said that immersion is the only way to go.</p>
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<p>Sorry. That was not my intent to imply that. My son has some LD’s as well and certainly not stupid…he is bright enough that there are no services for him and he certainly could use some. We end up paying many thousands of $$'s to private tutoring and homework coaching. I don’t begrudge the money but we were told, point blank by the schools that given his problems, if he were failing, we would be able to help. When I referred the bottom it was to point out the fact that the mandates are to make sure struggling students (not stupid, struggling…there is a difference…not every kid learns the same way) achieve up to standard (pass…not achieve). I understand the need for this but kids who are already at or above standard are, for the most part, taken for granted or ignored. I truly did mean to offend anyone. It was a poor choice of working in retrospect. Sometimes I struggle with the proper words.</p>
<p>missypie, If your son has the diagnosis of Asperger on paper, there shouldn’t be a problem with getting appropriate service through a public school. Getting services through a private school will be more difficult.</p>
<p>There are a couple of aspie kids that went through the public system with my younger son (not aspie) (graduated in June, 2008). Their capabilities varied–one was served by a combination of resource room, one-on-one aide, OT, psychological counseling. Another who was more capable was served by resource room help, psychological counseling, and inclusion into regular and one AP class. Another was homeschooled (aspie and tourettes) during middle school (he just couldn’t function in the classroom setting) and up through 10th grade (the public school allowed him to attend an AP class and an art class at the school). As he matured and felt more comfortable in the public school setting, his parents began sending him to the public school in 11th grade. His issues were more outward–odd behaviors, disruptive, gothic look. The high school kids were informed of this boy’s problems (generally of course, not personal info) so they better understood his behaviors and helped him along.<br>
My friend’s aspie son just graduated from another local public high school and he was given plenty of appropriate services–aide, someone to make sure he recorded him homework assignments, help with the organization of his assignments, homework assignments were shortened, etc. He thrived and found his niche performing in the school plays. In order to get the services though, the boy had to go through extensive testing (paid for by the school) at a specified location.</p>
<p>We have a well written professional diagnosis. No problem getting services in 4th-6htn grades. In 7th and 8th grades they wanted to dismiss him and we fought it. In 9th grade they wanted to dismiss him and we let them…the only “assistance” that was offered for 9th grade was the ability to go to a resource room for quiet. Not helpful.</p>
<p>Maybe the services are only guaranteed if the testing is done through the school at the location that they recommendation. This is the way it’s done here anyway.</p>
<p>We went to a national recognized center to have an independent educational evaluation done. The school wouldn’t even perform any testing (educational testing only) because he was passing his classes even though the teachers all knew there was a problem and wanted to hold him out of honors classes because he wasn’t picking up on things “quickly” enough…but he was passing!</p>
<p>nysmile, that’s not the case here. They just have always said that special services are not educationally necessary. The special ed folks don’t go to bat for us either. In their minds, why should a kid get special services so he can make a 95 in an AP class instead of an 85 or 78? To them, if you can pass an AP class, you need no help. Plus, he’s well behaved and not “out there.” His more severe Aspie friend gets more help…the friend has been at risk of failing classes (foreign languages are tough for them), has hit a kid in class (for tripping him), and has yelled at a teacher in class (for giving an illigocal grade.)</p>
<p>I have experience both with SPED and ESL.</p>
<p>Our district " optimally" has ESL students in a central location, until their English is good enough to participate in grade level classes.
Not what happens of course.
I have worked with students at D’s high school in a PTA funded ( now school is also partially funding) reading support program for below level readers, many of whom have only recently come to this country- often after extreme hardships.</p>
<p>Often they do learn spoken English quite fast, but it is much more difficult as a written language. No other courses taught in other languages however.</p>
<p>As far as SPED goes, students with IEPs recieve three pots of money, one that every student gets, one from state, and some from federal.
However, when there is discussion about cost of providing even basics for these students, it is not discussed that the schools get money from three places or that if it costs more than is allocated the district can recieve extra from the state.</p>
<p>My older daughter was fortunate to have attended private schools ( on scholarship) when the school district informed us that since she was not " gifted" in all areas, she would not qualify for any gifted support, even though her IQ was 160+, because there were areas where she was below grade level. Because she would never be two years below or two years above in all areas, it meant she would fit " right in the middle" :rolleyes:</p>
<p>My younger daughter attended private school for a few years- then was in SPED for 6 years. Since the services she received were a waste of time, ( basically when she went to pull out, she sat in the corner and worked on homework, while the teacher diagrammed sentences to the rest).
She then attended the top high school in the city, where she took support classes in her area of disability along with AP coursework.
She was admitted to all the colleges she applied to.</p>
<p>ESL parents need more support, they are often low income & are intimidated by the district hierarchy.Students learn English relatively fast, but if adults are isolated, they can have a much harder time.</p>
<p>It’s really strange then how the quality of the services works. I always thought that in the public school system, it’s mandated by the state to provide services to students that have been diagnosed by the testing site chosen by the school district. Services are not only offered based on academic needs but also psychological needs. For instance, when I worked in the public school there were kids that were diagnosed with anxiety and such and they were given provisions so they could take exams in quiet rooms, without a time limit, and with a para professional because of their test anxiety. Other kids were given extended time. Some were administered exams in sections rather then all in one shot because they would become overwhelmed by the sight of an entire test. </p>
<p>Location: Long Island</p>
<p>In addition, the ESL help here is huge. The town over from mine has an hispanic student population close to 40%. Many ESL classes, social work help, translators on duty at all times in the building, bilingual office workers, and programs for the parents/adults to learn English. The ESL kids/families get an enormous amount of services.</p>
<p>I certainly believe that the OPs image of a lone student in an advanced science class taught in Spanish is not appropriate–unless the student is a very recent arrival with high academic results already in Spanish. If he/she is that proficient in physics, there is no reason they would not be able to master English to be functional in the classroom (maybe still need help with writing) in a semester or two. </p>
<p>I personally (although some of my colleagues would tar and feather me for this) believe that immediate maintream immersion is the way to go. We all know it works. That said, the people I know for whom it has succeeded were kids whose parents were educated or knew the value of education or, in a few cases, kids who figured it out for themselves and were old enough to see the need. I have seen students succeed time and time again having been immersed immediately to sink or swim. In all the cases, I’m familiar with, regardless of age, the students were functional in the spoken language by the end of one semester (some sooner). Writing sometimes took longer depending on the age of the child. </p>
<p>We have all seen images in the media of illegal immigrant children who have succeeded academically and are now trapped at college age by their illegal status. However, many children who are not here or whose parents are not here legally face other obstacles to succeeding school. If your parents have not had much schooling, are even illiterate, perhaps, the support/help/encouragement you get at home is much different. If you are living in poverty, uncertainly, fear, or move frequently, this also affects your ability to succeed in school, even if you speak English perfectly. It is exacerbated by language difficulties and the ability to master English is equally affected. It is a vicious circle.</p>
<p>I think one of the main issues with US schools is that they are now expected to be all things to all people. Schools have student bodies who speak multiple languages and may be any stage in their acquisition of English. Students come to school dealing with all sorts of social issues–poverty, illness, teen pregnancy, drug use in the family, other family issues, etc. and schools/teachers are supposed to deal with this. Kids with all sorts of disabilities are now mainstreamed, everything ranging from a wide variety of learning disabilities, to physical problems, to Down’s syndrome children. It is mind boggling, and I don’t have any idea how it can be addressed. </p>
<p>In large school districts, there may be enough children with special needs that programs can be offered, but smaller school districts may have to deal with each child almost individually, at a huge cost. But I do agree that it is often the above average kids who are left to fend for themselves. </p>
<p>When I went to high school, I remember most of my teachers being above average, with only a couple I would have deemed mediocre. I received an excellent education and my senior year was taking 7 courses (3 independent study) in a 6-period class day. We didn’t have AP. My sons are 7 yrs apart and I can see the difference in the quality of our local schools just in that short time. Nothing is expected of students now. My very smart S2 did the absolute minimum needed to get by and still ended up with several honors courses and a 3.6 GPA. And he did it with our blessing. The first time I called him in sick so he could stay home and practice his music, it made my teacher’s heart wince, but I was convinced he would benefit far more from that than from the activities (films, making posters, study time) they were doing in the classroom.</p>
<p>“Nothing is expected of students now.” - Since this is the case for the first 13years of a student’s education, it filters through to college where the number of students who can’t think is appalling.</p>
<p>DocT- Absolutely correct.<br>
I made sure that my D. set her own goals - talked to her once in kindergarden. I told her that school was the most important activity in her life and homework is her first priority and full responsibility. The 5 years old perfectly understood and never needed to be reminded. I also told her that we are always available for help. I believe in personal responsibility. However, school program in US definately needs to be demolished and totally started from scratch. It is ineffective, boring, and lacks real challenges.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, not sure wher eyou get your data (or was this just ‘personal experience’) but its entirely off the mark in its over simplicity. Language acquisition is very dependent upon the age of the child, their personal ability to acquire language, and the native relative to new learned language. </p>
<p>Where I live, many kids (including my own) are in french immersion. They are NOT remotely fluent- none of them- after six months. Good god.</p>
<p>Starbright: This doesn’t correlate very well with what I’ve seen. There are millions of immigrants who came to the US and over the years have learned English. Yes, most still have an accent but they still are fluent in English.</p>
<p>Starbright: I was talking abuot my personal experience with my kids and kids of all our friends. They did not get any special treatment, just started going to school or daycare whatever age appropriate. They had no previous knowledge of English. As I mentioned before, I believe that any special treatment makes process much longer. Without it and without any exposure to English at home, it takes about 6 months for 10 years old to start speaking fluently without accent, reading, and writing. In addition, it took 2 months to skip whole 5th grade, since school program in country of origin was much more advanced. It took about 2 weeks in daycare for a 3 years old to start speaking English.</p>
<p>Your prime language learning years are 0-3. We were taught in college that from 0 to 3 a child can learn to speak up to 4 languages as a native. The language learning ability declines as we age, which is why it’s so nuts that most people don’t start trying to learn a foreign language until 14.</p>
<p>Of course, as some people are good at math and others at reading, some people are good at picking up languages and others are not. There’s a Brazillian guy in our area who puts up fences, does landscaping, etc. He’s been here a while and his English is terrible-I’m not talking accent; he has a tiny vocabulary. I’m pretty impressed that he’s able to run a small business in the US with about a 50 word vocabulary. I am amused by him because my ability to learn foreign languages is TERRIBLE…I have almost zero retention and I know that if I moved to Brazil, I’d be as non-fluent in Portugese as he is in English.</p>
<p>Missypie, do not be hard on yourself. You do not know that until you have actually experienced it. People in 30 and 40 learn rather quickly when they realize that they cannot feed/support their families and have any kind of life that worth living otherwise. However, after about 16 years of age, you cannot get rid of accent. Before that, they do not have it. I was always wondering about Kissinger, who came here before he was 10. I have no idea why he is speaking with accent.</p>
<p>I’ve heard that Kissinger’s brother didn’t (doesn’t?) have an accent.</p>
<p>I knew a guy at church who was a native US citizen but grew up mostly in the UK. He had a British accent but his siblings didn’t…we always wondered if it was affected.</p>
<p>Straying really really off topic, does anyone know if it is particularly difficult for Brazillian Portugese speakers to learn English? Besides our landscaping guy, my friend had an au pair from Brazil and they could truly hardly communicate.</p>