Murder Must Advertise
Nine Tailors
Strong Poison, Have His Carcase, Gaudy Night (read in that order)
How romantic are you? In Strong Poison, Peter meets Harriet vane, on trial. He falls in love immediately. Rarely impulsive, he proposes by books end, but she resists. So, one can follow this romance, or ride with him as he gets more sophistication in his sleuthing. His mom and Bunter grow in depth.
I think Cardinal Fang has good suggestions. You have to read the Harriet Vane ones in order, the rest don’t really matter.
I agree that the Harriet Vane books bring a layer of complexity to the series which make it the more memorable ones. However, I’m a big proponent of reading a series in order just to see the characters develop.
Clouds of Witness introduces more members of Lord Peter’s family and I liked the book but it isn’t a popular choice for most Sayers fans. You could also read Nine Tailors, The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club and Murder Must Advertise in any order.
But, if you’re not planning to read all the books Strong Poison, Have His Carcase, Gaudy Night, and Busman’s Honeymoon would be my top suggestions in that order.
ETA: Just saw that @mathmom said it better and more concisely than I. ?
I really enjoyed both books. I have read lots of AC, but I don’t remember reading ATTWN. It wasn’t my favorite of hers, but I enjoyed it. I had no clue as to who was doing the killing. In the past, I have been able to narrow it down to one or two.
This was my first Lord Peter books. I found it a bit slow in the beginning, but it picked up and I really got into it. I will certainly read more.
I wasn’t upset by the lack of character development in AC’s book. There really wasn’t anything to develop with everyone biting the dust, so to speak. She has given the world such marvelous characters such as Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot that we all know that she is more than capable of doing so.
I am reading the Maggie Hope mystery series by Susan Elia MACNeal. Her book, the Prisoner in the Castle is a takeoff of ATTWN. I had read the Christie book first. She did a good job.
All in all, great choices!!!
I have been rereading Whose Body to see what clues were there. On my kindle version about 1/2 way thru it says “And then it happened-the thing he had been half-consciously expecting”.” He remembered …everything. …He knew it” But I cant figure out what in the first half he remembered. Did anyone pick it up? I liked the description of the ahh-haa moment but did not get what ignited it.
He was reading Freke’s words about the worthlessness of a conscience and the desirability of passing on to the “higher individualism.” He thought to himself, that would be a useful belief for a criminal, because he wouldn’t be bothered by regret.
And then in an instant he realized that Freke was the conscienceless monster who did the entire thing. All the pieces fit together in his mind in a flash of insight.
Honestly this puzzles me. I think Christie is telling us that for all her blustering Emily’s sub-conscious is bothering her, but I don’t buy it. It doesn’t even make sense, except that because Beatrice killed herself, Emily is stuck on the island with people who are much more obviously guilty and she resents it. I disliked Emily thoroughly, but I can’t see that she is guilty of murder.
True, Beatrice Taylor did not die by Emily’s hand. Even so, Emily Brent’s crime (of being utterly heartless and cruel) seems worse to me than Dr. Armstrong’s–even though he actually killed someone! At least he provided a degree of help to other human beings as a competent doctor (once he sobered up).
C.S. Lewis wrote, “…a cold self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute.”
The enthusiasm on this thread for Dorothy Sayer’s writing and the other Lord Peter books is making me rethink not reading more of the series. You’ve convinced me to give it a shot. In fact, I just put Strong Poison on my Kindle. Thanks!
I agree with @mathmom that Emily Brent was the most unlikeable character. I didn’t see anything redeeming about her.
Rogers continuing to serve the others after his wife died really bothered me. I understand the class differences, but what about compassion and empathy? It was very strange. The women taking over Rogers duties did not surprise me at all. I would have been more surprised if they hadn’t, considering the year the story takes place.
^ I, also, just started reading * Strong Poison. *
It was so strange when Rogers continued serving the group, but I chalked it up to English rigid class structure, and hoped he enjoyed serving the scoundrels. ?
I just started reading Strong Poison too. I’ve read it several times before, but I liked it then and I’ll like it now.
I’m definitely going to read more because I would like to get the bigger picture on Lord Peter – and also because my answer to the question in @bookworm’s post #121 is “Very!!.”
From the book Women Writing Modern Fiction: A Passion for Ideas by Janice Rossen:
Interestingly, some fans of Lord Peter Wimsey back in the 1930s were none too pleased when Harriet Vane stole his heart. From the Sayers bio posted earlier: “The introduction of detective story writer Harriet Vane in *Strong Poison/i caused a schism. Some readers felt the love interest distracted from the purity of the detective story form…while others simply didn’t think she was worthy of their hero. Sayers was inundated with letters begging her not to let Lord Peter marry ‘that horrid girl’”.
^thank you… So interesting
I’m wondering who remembers reading Carolyn Heilbrun’s Writing a Woman’s Life, and probably discussing it in a book club, back in 1988. Where does the time go?? I think she had a section on Sayers. If I still had the book I’d read it again, since Heilbrun, Columbia prof writing mysteries under the pseudonym, Amanda Cross, was very interesting on Sayers,… If I remember correctly.
I like the Cross mysteries.
@alh, I just looked up the book and confirmed that, yes, there is an essay on Sayers in Writing a Woman’s Life. I was hoping I could find an extended excerpt on Google Books, but the site only let me see one sentence: “Only when the character of Lord Peter Wimsey was well-established could she, like the Old Testament God, create a woman.” 
^
Funny, wish there was a happy face, funny option response
And taking a short break from Lord Peter for the moment:
I’m still reading And Then There Were None. Several thoughts came to mind last night as I read.
- Consider *And Then There Were None* a locked-room mystery (or rather a locked-island mystery). Christie also wrote *Murder on the Orient Express*. Both are peopled with stock characters. The puzzle takes precedence.
- I started wondering who wrote the first locked-room mystery. I'd go with Poe and *Murders in the Rue Morgue*. (I'm probably wrong but maybe not far off.)
- Wilkie Collins' *The Moonstone* is considered another. I have to say I enjoyed that book and discussion but no longer remember details.
- Already knowing Wargrave commits the murders, it seems obvious from the beginning. All are "tried" court-of-law style for transgressions.
- I just finished murder #3 and all agree that it must be one of them. Wargrave points out that any one of them had the opportunity and describes in detail how it might have been done. In other words, he tells them - without telling them - how he did it.
- Wargrave points out - with care - that only those already murdered can be considered innocent. Clever, clever, clever. His later "murder" establishes his innocence in the minds of those remaining. Everyone already thinks along the lines Wargrave feeds them and then there were none. :wink:
Locked-Room Mysteries: https://crimereads.com/locked-room-mysteries-a-beginners-guide/
First of all, reading this question sent me to look up the spelling of the phrase “just deserts.” I always thought it was “just desserts,” because of the pronunciation, but nope: “Despite its pronunciation, just deserts, with one s, is the proper spelling for the phrase meaning ‘the punishment that one deserves.’ The phrase is even older than ‘dessert,’ using a noun version of ‘desert’ meaning ‘deserved reward or punishment,’ which is spelled like the arid land, but pronounced like the sweet.” https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/just-deserts-or-just-desserts
Learn something new every day!
Anyway…Motive. Judge Wargrave’s motive is to mete out justice like God and also to commit murder in order to fill a sick need. The former motive reminds me of the movie “The Star Chamber” (with Michael Douglas as a judge who seeks vigilante justice for criminals who get off on a technicality). The latter motive proves he’s insane. In a certain sense, he is still “acting with clear-headed logic and rationality” as he plots everything out, but yeah, insane.
I’m thinking about the motives of the guests and finding that several are punished for the consequences of being selfish, careless, and cruel – not for a pre-meditated crime with a motive.
Anthony Marston - no pre-meditated motive, reckless idiot
Emily Brent - no pre-meditated motive, heartless hypocrite
Dr. Armstrong - no pre-meditated motive, malpractice due to intoxication
Even Philip Lombard, as heinous as he is, had a motive of self-preservation rather than pre-meditated murder. He wasn’t actively seeking the deaths of the tribe members–he wanted to survive and was indifferent as to whether they lived or died. And William Blore (the most forgettable character in my opinion) was bribed to lie under oath. He wasn’t hoping for the death of his victim (who died later in prison).
The rest–Mr. & Mrs. Rogers, General MacArthur and Vera Claythorne–specifically desired the death of their victims, either for profit (Rogers), relationship issues (MacArthur) or both (Claythorne). However, they all let it happen indirectly (withheld medication, sent a man on a dangerous mission, allowed a boy to drown).
It is only Judge Wargrave who physically, deliberately and with full intent violently accosted the bodies of his victims to cause death.
@jerseysouthmomchess, I have wished for a “haha” response button many times! “Like” just doesn’t do it.
@ignatius, “Knives Out,” which @Marilyn mentioned in post #64, is a Locked Room Mystery movie. More films in that genre: https://screenrant.com/knives-out-benoit-blanc-murder-mystery-movies/