<p>Yes, maybe the discrepancy is in the interpretion of the word “study”. My kids spent most of their time doing homework and assigned reading rather than true studying.</p>
<p>Second, I agree that there are ways to cut corners on homework that save a lot of time without impacting one’s grade too much. The depth of learning, however, will be affected. I was surprised at how many parents admitted to me that their children don’t actually do the assignments when there are ways around it. For example, they don’t do their assigned outside reading. D’s English class has to read 3+ novels on their tested comprehension level every two months outside of whatever is being read for school. D loves to read, but when she’s doing her sport every day after school plus other EC’s, and has as much homework as she does, sometimes it’s hard to fit them in. The book report form they have to fill out is simple enough that you can complete it in mediocre fashion without having read the book. However, since the parent has to sign certifying the child did in fact read the book, my D must read the books for real because I don’t lie for her. Many parents have no trouble signing off regardless, and the kids just skim the novels and use online plot summaries to fill out the forms. It may, or may not, come back to bite them come SAT time–depends on the caiber of the novels chosen. I know D has learned a lot of new words that way so far this year.</p>
<p>I dunno, my D1 managed to do all the ECs and put plenty of time into academics, her love of reading, texting, movies, hanging out, whatever. D2 isn’t an efficient learner, did her best when she when she was overloaded- music, orchestra, plays, ECs, vol things, friends- ie, was forced to get down to business in the time available. We all try to do our best to guide them, appreciate them- and, yes, the parents who “brag” about their kids’ shortcuts and academic detachment bugged me. But it all came out in the wash.</p>
<p>About the * can’t extrapolate them to everybody else.* This is a big issue on CC- that we know some kids or some situations and think therefore it’s representative and makes a potential teaching point. If it makes sense to US, we think it should guide others. And really all it is is our own limited experience, preferences, opinions. It’s fine, as that. It just helps to periodically claim the anecdotes as simply anecdotes and use lots of IMO and IME. k?</p>
<p>That’s absolutely true as my younger son discovered to his misfortune. He took both AP English classes and AP European History (“an endless stream of random wars” in his words) in his 3rd and final year, along with 6 other classes first semester and 4 the last semester. The 3 AP English/History classes alone took up more time than his 10 classes the previous year – there’s just no shortcut to reading hundreds of pages and trying to review random facts for tests, no matter you smart you are. And researching papers becomes a black hole of time for a kid who loves to explore tangental facts leading to even more tangental facts, in the hope of delivering a unique insight into the topic. This last problem may well be an artifact of the Internet Age, where access to knowledge is limitless.</p>
<p>Some people can whip through chemistry problems but have to spend a lot of time and effort to arrive at some understanding of King Lear. For others, it’s the other way round. Maybe these things are taught differently in different places, too, for all that they are supposed to be standardized courses. For sure, my D’s experience doesn’t fit texaspg’s claim that “World History, US History and AP English are huge time killers.” D spent very little time on AP English (both lang and lit) yet scored 5s on both.</p>
<p>Our experience with AP English, US and World was different than what’s being mentioned here. DS had an amazing AP English teacher – very tough and demanding – but he did very little homework for that class. It’s a subject he’s naturally good at and he didn’t need to do a lot of homework. He also had a stellar AP US History teacher with a high pass rate. He did work in there but nothing overly time-consuming. AP World was fine, but I do know it was rough for some other kids. I think the AP course that was far and away most time-consuming for all of my kids was AP Biology and that’s because it’s the subject that is hardest to fit into one year. There is just so much more we know in biology, particularly in genetics, than when the course was taught thirty years ago. Conversely, English hasn’t changed very much. My youngest kid took 12 AP courses and did well and I would say it was a rare night that involved five hours of homework and a very rare night where he stayed up later than he wanted to because of homework.</p>
<p>If the AP teachers follow their AP guidelines, they give a lot of busy work to students for these three subjects. My kid’s teachers followed them to the tee and from what I remember, the world history teacher had about 80% 5s. I think the average is 15%?</p>
<p>I still remember her quips from parent teacher day 3 years ago. B is a good grade and sleep is overrated. Stop complaining that your kids are not getting enough sleep.</p>
<p>US history was a lot of reading. English had these things called DBQs (I believe history too) which was a major time killer.</p>
<p>But in doing DBQs they are learning to work from primary sources and gleen and interpret information rather than memorize and spout back what they’ve been told. In Lan/Lit and IB English one is supposed to have the tools to take a previously unseen text and understand and interpret it. I call that a useful life skill for all areas of study and thought.</p>
<p>The english teacher said it is considered busy work by a lot of people but she had to give it out since AP guidelines required it. She said she wanted to make sure people learnt everything needed for their AP exams.</p>
<p>Maybe she just didn’t like grading them LOL! but it doesn’t make the skill invalid. My kids have had teachers with much more . . . enthusiastic attitudes who maybe present the exercise in a more meaningful way.</p>
<p>I am a bit lost on no truth. My kids have had sleepless nights lots of times finishing their projects. Everybody has their own version of how their kids did it but she was right in our case. It was not specific to one class and it is cumulative.</p>
<p>B was not an acceptable choice to our kids.</p>
<p>Sleep deprivation in teens is dangerous. It is the source of car accidents, stress, depression, medical problems and, ironically, decreased memory and ability to learn. It is not something that a teacher should take lightly.</p>
<p>I would hate to wake up years from now and realize my kids had been deprived of a “normal” childhood (which of course includes copious amounts of sleep) all because I was pushing them too hard toward some elusive goal of admission into a particular college.</p>
<p>I am glad CC forum takes this very seriously. I have not noticed any of these problems having gone through my own sleep deprivations over the years but I may have stopped learning.</p>
<p>On a side note, I am quite concerned about being admitted at a hospital during nights. I keep hearing about these residents on these longshifts. If all these side effects are valid, it is a big risk.</p>
<p>For my kids, AP US was super time-consuming, as were both years of AP English–lots of reading and papers and essays due every week. Euro required less busy work in their case, but more study time because the teacher made the kids actually learn all the nit-picky dates and details about wars and royal blood lines. </p>
<p>All the AP teachers at open house night presented parents with a dire view of their courses and stressed the huge work load required. They talked about emotional pressure and how some kids can’t take the work load and reduced sleep. The top students at our high school don’t go to bed before midnight or 1 AM ever. Working on homework until 2 or 3 AM was not at all uncommon for my kids and their friends. As loremipsum says, there is no short cut for a lot of this work and even the very smart and highly organized kids with super time management skills have to stay up late a lot. D’s friends from the local top prep. report the same. The same courses at the local Catholic school require much less work based on reports my kids have heard. However, most kids only score 3’s there. </p>
<p>The fact that this varies by school is unfortunate–not because I think students everywhere should be sleep-deprived, but because there should be some standardization with courses that supposedly have the same curriculum and the same goals for mastery. Since these courses have become an important way to signal to colleges who has taken the most challenging classes and done well, then they should be challenging in the same way for all.</p>
<p>Now, if those AP courses were taught at a true college level (not “AP lite” level, nor spreading a semester of college material over a year in high school AP courses), wouldn’t it be reasonable to say that four such AP courses would be a full time course load, as four college courses are a typical full time course load for college freshmen?</p>
<p>So would it not be unreasonable to assume that a high school student taking five or six such AP courses (or four such AP courses plus two regular high school courses or “AP lite” courses) would be overloaded, unless s/he were extremely brilliant?</p>