<p>I think the high school counseling can vary WIDELY. I would say D receive very little to no help beyond filling out the forms the school is required to complete. D is at a highly ranked public high school, she’s in a top IB program there. But, there are only 3 counselors for the whole school–that’s 650 students per counselor. Frankly, they spend much of their time with kids in trouble. Not all parents know about CC, or have the time/interest to help with things like researching less well known colleges. I can see why some parents at the school hire private counselors for help.</p>
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<p>Big misconception. Dartmouth may not be liberal as Brown but it far from the conservative sterotype.</p>
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<p>It depends on the school and it depends on the student/family’s knowledge, time, priorities, and disposable income. I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing so depending on the circumstances. If the family has a good amount for discretionary spending what is wrong in getting someone who’s been through the process hundreds of times rather than stumble through as a virgin that most of us are to begin with. I knew nothing about things like ACT vs SAT, yield protection, early action vs decision, direct programs vs regular tracks, reach vs match vs safety, FAFSA and loan vs grant, etc.</p>
<p>I found our school counselors (in a pretty well-to-do district) handling a whole lot of kids and their priorities are basically to ensure that the basics are done and deadlines are met. They really don’t have the in-depth knowledge or the time to research for specific issues. </p>
<p>The college ap process is similar to many other things in life that we do infrequently that we don’t ask the right questions or do the right research and overlook opportunities that a pro wouldn’t have missed.</p>
<p>I knew about private counselors, but my first wake up call was walking through my kids’ lower school, hearing one dad tell another that, for 10k, Mr X could “get an Ivy admit.” My sense is we’re now way above that $ for wealthy families. That level of professionalism is too much. I suspect it takes the kid out of the process.</p>
<p>Most kids have never done any major application (even if they applied to a fancy summer program, that’s not the same.) Maybe they did a job app, but that’s not the level either. They’ve never written a personal statement of this sort. The Englsh teacher knows how to teach hs English, not necessarily what an effective CA essay is. Parents and kids view their writing, ECs or awards in their own hs context. They don’t have broad perspective on how their kid stacks up against national competition. </p>
<p>It’s a tough situation for many great kids caught in the middle.</p>
<p>If one can afford it and can find a consultant with a good track record, it seems to help. I have seen one day’s work turned into a glorious testimonial due to great packaging for some kids and actually result in some great admission outcomes.</p>
<p>Who says money doesn’t help?</p>
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<p>Exactly. And really, why SHOULD they prioritize getting my kid into Top School A over Slightly Lower Top School B, instead of working to get scholarships and funding for the kids who don’t have money for college? Really, the latter is more important.</p>
<p>Consultants can play many different roles, depending on the needs of the family. For instance:</p>
<p>-Helping families identify schools of which they may not have been aware. Not every child is destined for the top schools and there are a ton of great small schools out there that even GCs may not know well. This can be especially helpful for kids with special talents or need. A good consultant can tell a family which schools offer good support for a kid with Asperger’s or dyslexia and which just pay lip service to such support.</p>
<p>-Being the ones to stay on a kid’s case about essay writing and the other work involved in the application process. In some families this can save the parent-child relationship from a great deal of stress. I’ve seen lasting damage done by parental college nagging and teen resistance.</p>
<p>-Helping kids create an honest, accurate, but strong portrayal of themselves. Part of this is identify weaknesses in their applications. How many times have we seen kids on the “chance me” threads list a million ECs, burying their true talents in a laundry list of minor, uninspired activities? Simply rearranging the EC lists and cutting out the chaff could have given the admissions committee a clearer view of who these applicants were and made for stronger applications in general.</p>
<p>-Preparing kids for parts of the process for which they’re not naturally inclined. I have a kid who finds it uncomfortable to speak of his own accomplishments, feeling like he’s “bragging”. On a recent college tour he was asked if he “did a lot of community service”. He answered “no”, apparently thinking 600-700 community service hours over 3 years didn’t qualify as “a lot”. Sometimes kids like this think their parents are the only ones who think the things they do are interesting or impressive and need an outside voice telling them it’s okay to shine in a interview.</p>
<p>-Helping kids and their families assess their chances at the schools on their list. Look at the “Why didn’t I get in?” threads, filled with posts from parents and kids who assumed a 4.0 and 2300+ SAT was a magic ticket to the Ivies and failed to apply to appropriate backup schools. Many of these families could have used a reality check.</p>
<p>-Providing a fresh eye for an application. Sometimes parents and teachers are too close to a kid to accurately judge how they look on paper. If you’ve got a vibrant, funny, quirky kid who comes off as dull as dishwater on the application it may be hard to recognize. A consultant may be able to tell you how an admissions officer will see your child based on what they’re reading.</p>
<p>I am not a consultant, nor do we plan to use one for our child, but I’ve seen families who got a great deal of help from consultants. They’re not all about shoehorning kids into the Ivies.</p>
<p>My daughter’s high school college counselors don’t actively work with students until their junior year. We met with a private college counselor to forecast her junior year and senior year and I was pleasantly surprised how my daughter connected with her and seemd to take the idea of college admissions much more seriously. She explained WHY certain classes made sense and also shared her experiences with students who got into some schools and fell out of their intended majors because of the cut-throat weeding process (specifically pre-med and engineering). She suggested other schools to put on our radar. She provided her with a study schedule and suggestions for the SAT and ACT – all for $75. Certainly not an enormous sum of money for invaluable advice. She didn’t rope us into a college admissions consulting package or make any promises. She told my daugher, keep your grades up, study for the SAT and ACT and call me in a year.</p>
<p>same happened to me, </p>
<p>A lot of American universities are extremely biased against students transferring from other unis, I don’t know why. Yet many happily accept CC transfers. It’s weird. Those of us who took a gap year have an even harder time, even when we have a very good record. Makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>I think smart students do figure out how to market themselves or at least craft their applications to bring out their best points. My older son hated the process, but even he gave a very clear picture of himself, which was “I’m a computer nerd, take me or leave me.” He did show he had a sense of humor, barely. He got a lot of rejections, but also two great acceptances, and really all you need is one. Younger son had to think a lot more because he had grades that ran the gamut from B- to A+, and pretty lopsided SATs as well. His EC’s included music, science olympiad and the literary magazine. He was interested in International Relations, but there was nothing in his resume to suggest that. He wrote a strange little story derived from his interests in ecology for Chicago and Georgetown, wrote about helping archive the neighborhood association records for his EC essay, showed his creativity and ability to teach himself in an essay about origami, wrote an alternate history for Tufts for an optional essay, and a lot of funny “Why ___college essays”. He gave a good picture of a kid who was interested in lots of different things, well grounded in history and how historians think (his major academic success in high school), and one with a fun sense of humor. He thought a lot, about how each piece of the application would present another aspect of himself and did sell himself as a sort of jack of all trades kid.</p>
<p>We didn’t use a consultant, but then I’d been hanging out on CC for long enough that I felt I could do a pretty good job distilling what I had learned for my kids.</p>
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<p>Yet top schools still prefer their essays and applications, perhaps wealth is what they are after.</p>
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<p>Maybe 10k could’ve turned the rejections into acceptances for mathmom’s S1, who knows.</p>
<p>Everyone replying on this question bring up the same thing - GPA, SAT/ACT, and extra curriculars. By the sound of it, no one student has <em>one/two</em> substantial extra curricular activities that will stick out to any ivy league/upper level college. This just points out that everyone making the mistake - there are thousands of kids with 2300+/34+ SAT/ACT scores out there, but not many with very presitigious and state/nationally recognized awards that colleges love to see. I know people who go to MIT. One was a girl, all-state track runner, and very good academic stats; the other was a girl who has similar states, but won the Dean’s Award for Robotics (12 given out annually) as well as numerous other awards; the other one placed in the Siemens Competition. It’s all about the accolades for colleges.</p>
<p>I don’t know if anecdotal information is useful here, but from my experience, admission to schools such as Princeton, Stanford, etc. does not necessarily depend on parental wealth, national level awards, or some incredible or unusual achievement. </p>
<p>Two examples from this year: one student–fairly typical middle class family, very top of his class, high test scores, 4.0., both broad and focused extracurricular involvement–was admitted to multiple Ivy League schools and Stanford. Of course, no one knows why exactly, but there did seem to be some sort of consistency in the result. He received no rejections at all.</p>
<p>Second student: URM, a wonderful kid who had to face numerous family challenges in her life and still managed to get high grades and succeed in multiple APs as a scholarship student in a tough private school. Similar result as the first student, though she did receive a few rejections.</p>
<p>I think that at least in these particular cases the students’ success was about strongly demonstrated love of learning and the obvious esteem they had earned from the faculty, which probably came through in their recommendations–not about marketing or outside counselors as neither kid had this sort of help.</p>
<p>I would love to use a very good college consultant. I would do so in an instant, if I could more easlly come up with the money, and more importantly, if I truly believed the person was going to make a difference.</p>
<p>I live in an area where a number of families pay for help for a lot of things that most families do themselves. But when you do that, you are at the mercy of the expertise of the person who hire. I’ve heard and seen some bad advice even from some of he most reputable college counselors. They are not perfect and there are often niche areas that they do not know well. A parent/student still has to understand the process and be well involved if all bases are to be covered. </p>
<p>We had some grave mistakes occur due to the fact that I let too much of my second child’s college process get handled by his school college counselors which I over all rate at the top of the field. All had many years of experience, had golden contacts at many college admissions office and run a first class operations. But they made mistakes and were off on some judgement calls, and frankly, I could do the whole thing better in such circumstances now. Yet, I would not put myself way up there in the process. </p>
<p>I’ve seen a lot of disappointments among the families who have paid high cost college consultants. The true success rates may not be as one might hope they are when one uses them. What’s valuable is that you do have a seasoned professional (hopefully) at your fingertips to advise you and can offer unbiased opinions on things. Just handing the whole app process to one of these counselors is not a good idea at all, IMO.</p>
<p>“Two examples from this year: one student–fairly typical middle class family, very top of his class, high test scores, 4.0., both broad and focused extracurricular involvement–was admitted to multiple Ivy League schools and Stanford. Of course, no one knows why exactly, but there did seem to be some sort of consistency in the result. He received no rejections at all.”</p>
<p>Only one attribute can get this result - first generation student. If not, you probably don’t have all the details what that kid might have done outside of class that might actually be considered extraordinary. It is rare for all top schools to admit the same kid with no known accomplishements that make you go wow.</p>
<p>I guess you’ll have to trust me that in this case I do have all the details. And the kid is not first generation college. His parents attended state universities. The kid does have one passionate interest that he has pursued consistently in and out of school–but he didn’t win any awards for it.</p>
<p>When I related that tale about 10k and an Ivy admit, I meant, one dad had heard of Mr X, who, for his 10k “college advisory service” fee, would guarantee your kid the Ivy admit. Of course, we know there are virtually no guarantees, but that dad was impressed. </p>
<p>More recently, another parent told me she had willingly paid $25 k per kid for the advising. (Her kids were very nice, great athletes, but what I’d call 3rd tier academic level. For the 75k, each is at a 3rd tier college, btw.) </p>
<p>Green: imo, the issue isn’t missing one or two super activities, it’s that most kids overrate what they did in hs. Depending, it can come across as extraordinarily common, lacking any real effort or fake.</p>
<p>Texas- I think the poster was acknowledging broad and deep ECs and a compelling tale, between those two examples. How a kid packages himself matters.</p>
<p>Btw, I have read essays and apps I believed were done by a pro. Often this question arises from a certain country, where the typical English language skills are not that polished. In other cases, it’s pretty obvious when the main essay is solid and every other answer is vague, unimpressive or poorly written. It’s one of the things that gets flagged.</p>
<p>What greenenergykid21 says has alot of truth in it; for example placing as an Intel Finalist or even Semi-Finalist can reverse most admission decisions.</p>
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Fortunately for those college advisers, Cornell is an Ivy.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with Cornell, just that still have a double digit admit rate and are probably far more predictable for someone with experience in college admissions – usually the way that sort of “guarantee” works is that the counselor does a preliminary review of the student’s stats and EC’s to assess chances, and offers the special program with the “guarantee” only to students who clearly have a strong chance at admission. The “guarantee” doesn’t mean that the kid will get in; it just means that if he doesn’t, the parent will get their money back. </p>
<p>Typically those counselors also work with students and parents and try to redirect them toward good fit, match-level colleges. So the kid who goes in thinking “Harvard” will be encouraged to apply to Cornell but also be given a very strong pitch in favor a prestigious but somewhat less selective LAC (for example, Vassar or Colgate)</p>
<p>In any case – since you heard it 3rd hand, you probably don’t have the whole story. See [Guaranteed</a> Admission to Ivy League College Admissions Counseling](<a href=“http://www.collegeadmissionspartners.com/college-admissions-counseling/guaranteed-admission-to-ivy-league/]Guaranteed”>Guaranteed Admission to Ivy League - BS/MD Admissions by College Admissions Partners)</p>
<p>Ariel - If I may ask - what kind of passion? </p>
<p>Lookingforward - I understand people do get in that way but not to every top school though. At least one or two are usually waitlists if not rejections.</p>
<p>If you win the Intel talent prize and you have an application pending, everyone including Harvard issues you a likely a day later though.</p>