<p>No it’s not about “hostility to feminism and gender equality,” though I do think that radical feminism is what’s pushed “date rape education” into our schools.</p>
<p>Society is like a pendulum, our beliefs and values are ever-changing and shifting back and forth, but always looking for that balance in the middle. Sometimes it takes extremists at both hands to lead us to that point.</p>
<p>I suspected as much, that the objection was really political.</p>
<p>But I don’t think it’s fair to say that there are any feminists who think it’s acceptable for date rape victims to be stigmatized or denied justice or to feel they have no option but suicide–and that there’s nothing that should be done to address this.</p>
<p>And I don’t know of any feminists who believe that only boys from “bad” homes can be rapists, so only they need date rape education, as has been suggested in this thread.</p>
<p>What’s interesting is that some of the same people who are opposed to date rape education are in favor of education about abstinence. Shouldn’t both be left up to the parents, if one is? It’s interesting that this kind of behavioral education is only threatening when it involves a woman’s right not to be raped?</p>
<p>John Mccain, a known adulterer, just gave an abistance talk to middle-and-high school age students. Where is all the shock and outrage about him accusing all these kids of being promiscuous or at risk of becoming promiscuous?</p>
<p>No the objection is not political.
The objection is to date rape ed for my sons; which was introduced by radical feminists–unless someone is aware of another group who led the charge for its introduction.</p>
<p>I am against any and all sex ed in the schools.</p>
<p>I would think that the “charge” for the introduction of date rape education was led by people who think that date rape is unacceptable. This is hardly so deviant it would take a “radical” to hold it.</p>
<p>I don’t get why it’s right to tell kids that consensual sex is wrong, and wrong to tell kids that forced sex is wrong.</p>
<p>So far, the only objection I’ve seen is that telling kids that forced sex is wrong because it offends people who hate feminists. I don’t find that a compelling reason.</p>
<p>Even if radical feminists brought issues such as date rape to the public’s attention, they are not the ones typically going into our schools and educating our students - or making the decisions to go into the schools (although I can’t speak for your district–perhaps you live in a really “enlightened” area?)</p>
<p>And if radical feminists were the ones who brought date rape to attention, wouldn’t society owe them a huge debt of gratitude for it?</p>
<p>I have a hard time believing that many people believe date rape or any rape is acceptable. If a boy thinks that forcing sex upon a girl is acceptable, I doubt that an assembly is going to change his mind. In addition, we have absolutely no data to prove or disprove that these assemblies/education initiatives make any difference whatsoever. It is amazing how that doesn’t seem to bother anyone. As long as we are under the illusion that we are making a difference who needs facts? </p>
<p>And I continue to wonder why boys are supposedly in need of education not to force sex on girls, but girls are not educated about the importance of not taking advantage of boys.</p>
<p>Abstinence education doesn’t seem to make a difference, but it continues, with the blessing of many of the people who condemn education in support of abstinence from date rape.</p>
<p>The fact that you deny that “many people” believe date rape is acceptable points up the need for more education rather than less. Obviously rapists think it’s acceptable, as do the people who refuse to arrest or prosecute them or who vilify the victims. </p>
<p>At one time in this country, it was almost impossible for a woman to get her rapist arrested unless she were married, in her own home, and badly injured. When I was a college student, a jury in Florida let a rapist go free even though he admitted under oath to holding a knife to a woman’s throat to force her to have sex with him. Their reason? They didn’t like what she was wearing, so it was acceptable to rape her. </p>
<p>I remember in the early 1970’s reading letters to Dear Abby where the letter writer would insist that there was no such thing as rape (all the women claiming to have been raped were lying) because if a woman just kept her legs closed, no penetration could occur. We are not far at all from the days when the “spinning Coke bottle” defense was used in court to “prove” that it was impossible to have sex with an unwilling person. And rape victims were routinely questioned about their sexual history in order to “prove” that a woman who wasn’t a virgin was lying about being raped…yet the jury couldn’t be told if a man had been convicted of raping other women.</p>
<p>Even if date rape education doesn’t change rapists’ behavior, it certainly has changed society’s willingness to tolerate rapists’ behavior. And for that I am very grateful.</p>
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<p>Do you have statistics to show that any significant numbers of boys are being raped by girls? Though rape of males by females can and does occur, I have never seen anything to suggest that it’s widespread. It’s a tragedy when it does occur, of course, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that it’s a widespread public safety issue.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRF_PARTY_PROTEST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US[/url]”>http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRF_PARTY_PROTEST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US</a></p>
<p>“And I don’t know of any feminists who believe that only boys from “bad” homes can be rapists, so only they need date rape education, as has been suggested in this thread.”</p>
<p>I’m assuming this comment was based on the question I posed in post #89, when I asked where boys who aren’t raised in “healthy homes” are supposed to receive information about date rape. Obviously, I didn’t make my point clear, so I’ll try again.</p>
<p>Hereshoping has stated repeatedly that she believes sex education and discussions about date rape should be restricted to the home, and be the sole purview of a child’s parents, the assumption being that a child raised in a “healthy home” environment (such as her own) will be properly and responsibly educated in such matters by his/her parent(s). I agree that in the best of all worlds, ALL children would be raised in homes wherein his/her parents would impart such an education without fail, and in a timely manner. However, that’s not the world we live in. And as Conyat so aptly pointed out, many a rapist has emerged from, what on the outside, appeared to be an upright and proper (healthy) home. </p>
<p>Here’s my position on Sex Education (as well as Date Rape Education)</p>
<p>1: Everyone should receive accurate information on sex and reproductive health. Everyone should be taught the possible emotional and moral implications of the decision to engage in sexual activity. Ideally, such discussion should occur in the home. Too bad parents often neglect to educate their children on the subject (other than to say it’s a sin/don’t “do it”). Too bad parents often remain woefully ignorant of both the information itself, and its importance to the child.</p>
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<li><p>Young women should be informed about their rights and responsibilities when it comes to sex. They should be taught how to avoid (to the best of their ability) being in situations where they might be forced into sex against their will. However, should they ever be violated, they should know that they are supported by their parents (and society in general). They should know their legal rights. They should not be made to feel that they brought such a heinous act upon themselves. Girls should also be taught that it is immoral in the extreme to use sex as a social weapon, (to purposely conceive a child in order to “trap” or manipulate a young man) or to make false accusations of rape. Since naturally, most parents could never imagine their daughters might be capable of such things, and therefore never think to discuss the subject, it should be perfectly acceptable to raise such issues in school. Since it is vitally important for ALL children to learn about sexual reproduction, and discuss the emotional and moral (not to mention, economic) implications of sexual activity, it should not be assumed that they will receive such information at home. Often, they do not.</p></li>
<li><p>Boys should understand what constitutes consent to engage in sex with a girl, and what does not. They should be taught to avoid situations in which they might be falsely accused of rape. They should be taught sexual responsibility, as well as the possible emotional, moral and economic implications of sexual activity. </p></li>
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<p>4). All children should be taught to spot the ways in which popular culture (and the media in particular) manipulates peoples ideas and attitudes toward sex. They should be given tools to resist peer pressure and criticism. They should be taught that casual sex is almost never without some sort of emotional, moral or physical consequence.</p>
<p>5). No single institution (neither home, nor religious institution, nor school) seems to reliably impart all of the above information. We as a society are failing our children to an unacceptable degree when it comes to sex education. But that doesn’t mean we should stop trying to get it right.</p>
<p>Poetsheart, I was referring more to HH’s attitude than yours. One thing I did want to address though:</p>
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<p>While I’m all for assault prevention training, the trouble with this is, as women change their behavior out of fear of being attacked, rapists will change their attacks. Stop going out after dark because you might be raped, rapists will attack more in the day. Only leave the house with a male chaperone because you might be raped, rapists will hurt or kill the chaperone first. </p>
<p>Allowing rapists to dictate what women can and cannot do in society should be abhorrant to anyone who realises that power and control–not sex–is what motivates rape. Rapists should be the ones punished for rape.</p>
<p>Excellent point, conyat. Though actually, it never occurred to me to advise girls to stay in after dark or only go out if accompanied by an escort. That would indeed be living in fear (or Saudi Arabia). I certainly don’t hole up at home, afraid that venturing outside could result in my being raped, and I would hate for my own D to hide in fear either. Actually, I was thinking in terms of date rape—though I realize there’s no way to totally avoid all situations that might lead to rape. I was specifically thinking about guarding against being surreptitiously drugged (keep an eye on your drink!), or inviting someone you’ve just met up to your apartment for a night cap (or going to his), especially if you have no interest in having sex with him (a bad idea, anyway when you know next to nothing about a person—his sexual history, whether or not he has any form of STD, etc.). It’s good to avoid being alone in poor lit areas, or jogging alone (especially, after dark) in sparsely populated areas, etc.</p>
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<p>When a woman does get raped outside of her home, often the first question is: “What were you doing THERE?” or “Why didn’t you bring someone with you?” or “What were you doing out so late?” etc. </p>
<p>Rape has long been used to control female behavior, and women have often been counseled not to go out at night or alone or otherwise curtail their movements for fear of it. That’s the basis of the Take Back the Night movement. That rapists should be the ones who can’t walk the street, not law abiding citizens.</p>
<p>Just as an aside, during the military occupation of New Orleans during and after the Civil War, the military governor passed a law that any woman who crossed the street rather than be on the same sidewalk as a Union soldier was to be considered “a woman of the streets, plying her trade”, that is, she could be raped with impunity.</p>