<p>I’m an INTP, which is one of the types that usually has “lawyer/attorney” pop up, along with physical scientist, engineer, etcetera (you’d think by reading those personality profiles I ought to be some rich genius already, but…whatever). Anyway, while the introvert/extrovert designation has some validity, most people vary along the other axes from day to day even if you accept the test as a whole as having validity. </p>
<p>Thinking/feeling in particular stands out to me as an odd axis for a personality test; who among us does not both think and feel every day? Who makes all his/her decisions based on one or the other? I know that I can test as a strong T one day and a strong F the next, and usually just choose T answers because I tend to make academic/professional choices based more on thought than on feeling.</p>
<p>In other words, there’s little difference between any two groups of people who only differ by a single letter. Yes, your son would probably be the polar opposite of an ESTJ and might not enjoy (for instance) being a police officer. But there’s plenty of room in this world for some caring, emotionally sensitive lawyers.</p>
<p>Speaking of ESTJ, while Myers-Briggs may give guidance on the areas in which a given person might be happier, it doesn’t necessarily say that one cannot be successful in an area not well-suited to one’s personality. I did just fine in the military, an EJ field if ever there was one, by coming up with my own way to handle situations. Most people do find their own way to succeed in their chosen career field, even if it is a very different method from the one which the majority of their colleagues use.</p>
<p>“As for engineers, do you know how to spot an extroverted engineer? He stares at your shoes while he talks.”</p>
<p>WashDad, this cracked me up when I read it. My daughter, a freshman engineering major, recounted the story of her first engineering class. They had to work on a group project and no one in the group would talk. She said, “Finally, I had to say something. No one was talking. Me! Can you believe it?”</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. Your feedback has been enlightening. </p>
<p>Just a few matters of clarification…
I am NOT trying to persuade Son that he should be a lawyer. As I clearly stated in the first post, the subject (with him) is dropped. He said he’s not interested, so end of discussion. We’re not pushing.</p>
<p>I started this thread merely out of my own curiosity about whether INFPs could <em>be happy</em> as lawyers. NOTE that I wasn’t wondering whether INFPs should be or could be lawyers. I was wondering if any of them are happy as lawyers (posts #1 and #8). </p>
<p>And lastly, I do realize that Son has an incomplete understanding of what lawyers do when he thinks they just sue people and deal with criminals. However, since he is not the least bit interested in being one at this point, the last thing I’m gonna do is make an issue out of it. He’ll get the full picture one day (maybe when he’s trying to figure out what he’ll do with that BA in sociology ) when he hears it from a mentor or classmate. Parents, of course, are clueless.</p>
<p>I think the law offers a huge breadth of possible jobs, and there truly is something for everyone - even the idealist out to serve humanity. But getting through law school could be extremely trying to someone like your son. I know of one law school that administers the MB to all new law students, and the vast majority seem to be ENTJ, with heavy emphasis on the E and T. They invite a psychologist to talk to the student about how their personality type might affect their interactions with fellow students and professors. Apparently, someone has noticed and written about the prevalence of E-type law students taught by predominantly I-type professors, although I don’t have a source to quote you right now. I just thought that was an interesting observation.</p>
<p>kaosgrace wrote: “Thinking/feeling in particular stands out to me as an odd axis for a personality test; who among us does not both think and feel every day? Who makes all his/her decisions based on one or the other? I know that I can test as a strong T one day and a strong F the next, and usually just choose T answers because I tend to make academic/professional choices based more on thought than on feeling.”</p>
<p>kaosgrace, if you research a bit more about what is meant by the terms thinking/feeling in terms of MBTI or personality type - I think you will understand why this dichotomy is so important. </p>
<p>Feeling, as used by MBTI, is not an emotional type of feeling. </p>
<p>Both thinking and feeling are types of judgment and describe decision making values. If one has a preference for “thinking” one prefers logic and values objective truth, believes “truth” is more important than “tact”, believes the best decisions are impersonal, believes in analysis of cause and effect. Those who use the feeling preference are more concerned with “harmony” than “truth”, believes the best decisions are made with an orientation to the subjective and personal. </p>
<p>Thinking/feeling is the most difficult trait upon which to compromise - it’s easy to see why when you realize that it requires compromising on whether to value the objective or subjective. Additionally, those traits affect ones behavior: Those with a preference for thinking appear analytical, impersonal, and cool. Those with a preference for feeling appear warm, personal, tactful. </p>
<p>Many people with a preference for feeling are uncomfortable in the debate filled environment that is part of the law profession. The vast majority of lawyers are thinkers and this sets the “tone” for the profession. Law tends to be a career of “criticism” versus “affirmation”. Many F’s who choose law tend to work in family law, in support of causes, victims rights, etc.</p>
<p>Stanford Law announced it is doing away with grades. The students will receive honors, pass, restricted pass or no credit. They say it is to reduce competition pressures and end the practice of students choosing classes based on whether they are graded to a mean or not.</p>
<p>I am a happy INFP and have practiced law for more than 25 years. We had the whole firm tested, in the hopes that we would better understand the different ways folks approach a problem There were only two INFP’s, but we are both pretty happy.</p>
<p>And if you look at the MBTI, all the supposed dichotomies are false. It assigns you a label based on where you fall on a spectrum. Someone who picks the “T” answer 60% of the time gets the same T/F label as someone who picks it 100% of the time.</p>
<p>As a science/engineering person who usually scores “F” on that axis, I maintain that people can understand the values of both logic and tact/diplomacy, and figure out what is appropriate to use when.</p>
<p>The MBTI is fun, but it’s a glorified, pseudoscientific, Internet quiz (and yes, I realize it exists off the Internet, but it’s the sort of personality quiz that you find all over the Internet). It’s better than your average Quizilla quiz, but that’s about it. Given that it thinks I am poorly-suited for my happy career, I will happily take it to compare my scores with those of my friends, but I shudder at the thought that anyone would use it for career counseling.</p>
<p>jessiehl wrote: “And if you look at the MBTI, all the supposed dichotomies are false. It assigns you a label based on where you fall on a spectrum. Someone who picks the “T” answer 60% of the time gets the same T/F label as someone who picks it 100% of the time.”</p>
<p>jessiehl - that’s the point! That is exactly what the MBTI was designed to do. As an engineer - I’m sure you will be able to understand the statististics and math behind “item response theory”. It was never designed to be a “quantitative instrument”. </p>
<p>And, btw, there are many engineers who are F’s - nowhere does personality type theory say that a person cannot “understand” both logic and tact - or any of the other dichotomies. Nor does it indicate ability regarding dichotomies. It only reviews preferences - and there is always a “preference” for one or the other - even when one thinks they are fifty/fifty. Perhaps, as an F, you really don’t understand that many T’s want to “cut to the chase”. They neither need nor want, “small talk”, “building relationships”. In fact, many Thinkers,for example, do not want/need someone to take the time to first compliment them on what they are doing “well” before pointing out what they are doing “wrong”. Can they be taught to provide constructive criticism differently to staff members who are F’s? Absolutely? But, they themselves will never need/want such. </p>
<p>There is much much more to the MBTI than exists on most internet sites. In fact, most internet “look alikes” I have seen have poor questions - replete with built in bias and low reliability/validity. But, it’s not for everyone. Typically intuitives see the connections/patterns and become quite interested in the topic while sensors do not. </p>
<p>And, surprisingly, many math/science/engineers, introduced to the instrument kicking and screaming about how ridiculous/bogus it is - actually find it extremely valuable. I am one of these converts.</p>
<p>I registered on this site for the sole purpose of answering this question. I have been a corporate attorney for 5 years and I am an INFP. Law school and lawyering in 2009 is a terrible, terrible choice for the vast majority of people, especially INFP’s. Your son is wise to reject it as an option. I can tell you, as one of the “successful” lawyers that makes a lot of money, the profession is deadening, tedious and life-ruining for an INFP. I am writing this in the hopes that this will dissuade someone out there from shipwrecking their lives by going to law school. If you are a law student, do what you have been daydreaming about and just drop out now. Don’t listen to the friends and relatives who will tell you “law school opens doors” or “just finish what you started”. The smartest, happiest and best law students I knew realized how terrible it was halfway through and made a course correction and saved themselves an additional $30k+ in debt for their last year. INFP’s, with a few rare exceptions I guess, do not belong in the tedious, mind-numbing, life-shortening practice of law.</p>
<p>Another view - I’ve been a corporate lawyer for 30+ years, and fit the description (although to be perfectly honest, I thought it reminded me of a horoscope personality description for Pices…geez, anyone can find similar traits in themselves at different times in their lives). Having a kid who fits this description in high school or even in college certainly doesn’t mean that the kid isn’t going to mature into a different person.</p>
<p>I have, however, found that these traits permit me to establish warm team-building relationships across business lines, and to help me identify the clients’ actual goals vs. goals that may be expressed at the beginning of a case or project. Being intuitive is very helpful to my practice. Being an introvert is something I leave at home.</p>
<p>IMO, the most important qualities of a good lawyer are (1) superb communication skills; (2) being adaptable and able to see all sides of an issue; (3) being slightly compulsive, and willing to research or redo work products over and over without taking offense, whether improving them at a client’s request or at the lawyer’s own initiative; (4) incredible work ethic. If you want to work 9 hour days, find another job; (5) good imagination. You will need to go through “what if” scenarios for every legal issue and every fact pattern. </p>
<p>Do these qualities fit that description? Sure. Do they fit other descriptions? Sure. Lawyers have all kinds of personalities. Some are introverts, and some are extroverts. Some lawyers do court work, and some do corporate work. Some ■■■■■ for clients by socializing in churches and at the PTA. Some ■■■■■ for clients by staying alone in their offices and writing great newsletters or legal tomes. </p>
<p>Wanting to be a lawyer is a very personal career decision. Lawyers aren’t guaranteed financial success (too many lawyers are now making <$50K year, especially in this economy). The profession is not respected, as you can tell by the number of lawyer jokes that everyone tells. There is a signficant glut of lawyers, making it hard to find employment. Besides, law school is just too miserable and getting established in the profession is just too hard a process for anyone to go through it unless they really, really want to be an attorney.</p>
<p>I have my students complete a self assessment and the next week I give them their resultant “personality type”, description along the lines of Myers-Briggs. I then ask them to rate how accurately it describes them, and would they recommend this self-assessment tool. Extremely high ratings, students love it, 90% plus of them say it describes them to a T…</p>
<p>Then I tell them the “personality type” description they were given was randomly assigned to them. I have a big stack of them and just pass them out in random order. I really do.</p>
<p>Now, isn’t it more interesting to discuss what an INFP can bring to the CIA? A good cop role in interrogation? A high level of resistance to seduction by attractive foreign agents?</p>
<p>This old thread being revived gave me such a start as I didn’t notice this thread was from 2008…Late to School posted on it…earlier…her posts are very missed on this forum…and she was very beloved on CC for her wit and her smarts. Her fight with cancer and her brave articulate posts are all archived to read here. she is missed and remembered well…</p>
) when he hears it from a mentor or classmate. Parents, of course, are clueless.</p>