<p>In addition to the gfci outlets the current code also requires all the lighting fixtures must be on a gfci breaker and each room must be on its own circuit. The cost of gfci breaker is $40 in home depot, I had to put in 12 gfci breakers in my just completed renovation, it was a jaw opening cost overrun.</p>
<p>How did you spend over $40 each for a GFCI?</p>
<p>[Search</a> Results for gfci outlet at The Home Depot](<a href=“http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=gfci+outlet&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All]Search”>http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=gfci+outlet&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All)</p>
<p>A 20A TR GFCI is still only $20. You can buy GFCI 3-packs for $30. Sure, it’s more than the $3 or so a regular TR receptacle costs, but it’s honestly not the worst way to spend a few extra bucks on upgrading your wiring. This is doubly true if you’re hiring an electrician to do the work; their labor costs easily dwarf the cost of the receptacle.</p>
<p>I really liked the idea I saw elsewhere online, which would be to change the way standard outlets were mounted on the wall. Instead of having them be vertical, mount them horizontally and have the grounding plug on opposite ends of the outlet. It would let you plug in two bricks directly into the wall, and also accommodates having wires go either to the left or right better (as you often wind up doing anyway).</p>
<p>it is a gfci braker, NOT an outlet.</p>
<p>btw, code also requires that ALL outlets that a kid can reach be Temper Resistant, be a gfci or non-gfci…That adds the cost of re-wiring. We did not want to screw around with the notion of failing inspection, so we did everything gfci outlet/breaker all temper-resistant.</p>
<p>
I think you’re off on the cost difference there but I’ll let you look it up at HD or elsewhere. I recently bought a pile of them at HD and it was surprising how expensive they were.</p>
<p>My point is that what you’re characterizing as ‘should’ be done is really just what ‘you’ would prefer and not related to building codes, what’s done by licensed electricians in practice, what’s the more practical thing to do, or what one would typically find in a home. I’m pointing out the difference between your preference and actual building code/practice for the sake of other posters here who don’t know about GFCIs and how they’re typically used. </p>
<p>Looking at it from a practical perspective, if a builder can save, for example, 6 or 7 GFCIs by using them as they’re designed to be used by having normal outlets on the load side of them, then that’s $100 or so saved and if they’re building 500 of the same type of home for a new neighborhood then the cost savings is $50K and you can bet the builder will try to save that $50K which is why the homes have them configured the way I stated.</p>
<p>My bad, didn’t catch you were talking about actual breakers. Are GFCI breakers actually required by code for all locations?</p>
<p>Also, the tamper resistant ones are, like, $1 extra, if even that, per receptacle.</p>
<p>Has anyone heard from the OP in the past couple of days?</p>
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<p>You’re right that its my opinion, developed from ending up in the dark when a gfci trips. But I agree with you that unless you spec out exactly what you want, you get the cheapest possible job…one of the things that drives me crazy these days. </p>
<p>[Lighting</a> tied into Bathroom GFCI outlet [Archive] - The Building Code Forum](<a href=“http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5453.html]Lighting”>http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5453.html)</p>
<p>The link has some discussion from electricians who have the same concern that I do about winding up in the dark. Apparently Massachussets has modified the NEC to require that lights not be wired “downstream”, (on the “load” circuits) of a gfci. That’s my main beef, but I would bet that it happens mostly on remodeling jobs where full access to the wall wiring isn’t availble.</p>
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Funny one! </p>
<p>(I hope)</p>
<p>Based on 2010 code, gfci breakers are required on ALL Switches, they are $38 each at HD for Murray 15 amps, much higher for Square D. I had to buy them online which is about half price. When you have to do a whole house rewiring every penny counts as I bought 20 gfci breakers, endless number of gfci outlets, even more temper resistant outlets, they all add up. I am way over budget on electrical as the PG&E did not like our entry point main circuit design even the town inspector passed the installation. Long story short, one month delay in completion and rampant cost overrun.</p>
<p>I want to replace two outlets in the kitchen and was amazed by the price of them. So I have Two old beige gfi outlets and all the rest if my outlets and switches are white…lol</p>
<p>Are you sure the house is wired to use gfi outlets? My moms house was built in late 50s and still has fuses and no 3-prong outlets. (When my dad was alive, he put some in, but in reality, they are not grounded outlets. He installed them for the convenience of some appliances needing a 3-prong outlet). </p>
<p>(Note - not looking forwarded to selling her house down the road. She’s 85 and ignores all maintenance issues, but is too proud and independent to accept any help).</p>
<p>GFCI outlets do not depend on the presence of grounding in the outlet box. They compare the hot and neutral currents and cut the power if they are different (i.e. some current is leaking somewhere). In some older houses with knob and tube wiring, the hot and neutral wiring may be unbalanced; this will cause GFCI outlets to always cut the power if installed in such circuits.</p>
<p>When GFCI outlets are installed in outlet boxes with no grounding, the outlet and any downstream outlets have to be marked “no equipment ground”. While GFCI outlets can improve safety in case of ground faults, they do not fulfill the need for real grounding as needed for surge suppression devices.</p>
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<p>I’m looking at the code and am not sure this is correct. What has been mandated is that switches and conductive plates be connected to the ground wire available. If none is available, you either have to have a non-conductive plate and screws, or you must have gfci protection on that circuit. That would mean that many older houses would require a gfci breaker on that circuit.</p>
<p>Some of this code is becoming overkill. The biggest overkill is arc-fault breakers, which tend to trip much more often that regular breakers, especially if you plug a hair dryer or other electric motor into the circuit.</p>
<p>Ucbalumn is correct about the purpose. The name is misleading for gfci. A true short (low resistance) to ground will definitely trip your regular breaker. What the gfci is there for is to detect a relatively high resistance path to ground (like a human) that doesn’t draw enough current to trip the circuit breaker, but does draw enough to electrocute or injure the human. The circuit breakers are there to protect the wiring and the structure from fire. Most are 15 amp breakers, depending on the wire size in the circuit. Humans die easily from current measured in milliamperes, so additional protection is needed for that purpose in the form of the gfci.</p>
<p>NJ, was that directed at me? </p>
<p>I already have the gfi outlets there. But they are beige colored. I was changing all my outlets over to white but those cost so much that I left them as is</p>
<p>O.k. The diagnostic phase is completed. I cut the wires to the old florescent light fixture with ballast and the whole circuit comes to live. All other loads - i.e. the refrigerator and a regular light work with the switch w/o any problem. </p>
<p>Here is some questions regarding the repair phase.</p>
<p>The lowest cost option is to correct the cut wire to a standard light fixture and put a light bulb in it. However, al the standard light fixture we saw at home depot only has two screws - one for hot and the other for natural. There is no green screw for grounding. We checked with the sale clerk there and two electricians doing the shopping there. </p>
<p>Because this circuit is down stream from a FGCI box, I must have a grounding. A little googling tells I should not connect the ground to the natural. The electricians at Home depot suggested to connect the ground to the nearest box. That means I have to separate the ground wire from the line and pull it all the way to the box. Does not look good.</p>
<p>Is there any other wiring possibility for this option?</p>
<p>the second option is to put a three prong receptacle at the end of the cut wire. And then plug in a light fixture with a three prong plug. </p>
<p>The problem here - the cost. The hardware along is about $20. I would rather make the standard two wire fixture ($1.49) work.</p>
<p>Many thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Normally you’d connect the hot (black) and the *neutral<a href=“white”>/i</a> wire to the corresponding black and white wires of the fixture and you’d connect the ground wire (bare copper wire with no insulation or a green wire) of the outlet to the metal part of the fixture to a grounding screw (usually a green colored screw).</p>
<p>No offense intended but from what you’re writing here it sounds like you don’t really know what you’re doing so unless you educate yourself completely and successfully on this I suggest hiring an electrician to do this for you. It’s not complex but you definitely don’t want to connect neutral (not 'natural) to ground and you don’t want to connect the ground wire to neutral and you don’t want to not connect the ground wire.</p>
<p>How about ditching the ceiling light altogether. Get a floor lamp and plug it into a well wired outlet.</p>
<p>My husband designs and does this type of work. He suggests you stop now…and hire someone to do your wiring. There is NOTHING worse than hodge podge wiring…and sometimes it can be dangerous.</p>
<p>What would be cheaper…hiring an electrician to do the job right…or replacing your house if there is an electrical fire.</p>
<p>You are being penny wise and pound foolish.</p>
<p>Its against the NEC for neutral to be grounded anywhere other than at the service entrance.</p>
<p>Its not clear to me that you need a ground wire to that fixture, even downstream from a GFCI breaker. I think it works fine without it.</p>
<p>I agree with GladGraceDad about understanding what it going on. My view of electrical wiring is that if you can’t draw a schematic that explains house wiring from the distribution lines through the pole transformer and into your house, you probably shouldn’t work on the circuits. BTW, I think half or more of licensed electricians probably can’t do this.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider…if you have an electrical fire…and it is because of DIY work not done to NEC code, you could find your insurance very reluctant to pay damages.</p>