Any Guesses on the New Amazon HQ?

Parent Cafe
1061

UChicago hasn’t (historically) had much of a CS program but I think you’re completely complete misunderstanding what UChicago students mean when by “life of the mind” to think it somehow excludes working for Amazon.

I think the exact nuances of the statement are hard to grasp from outsiders that insist on speaking for us on college confidential, but the motto is totally orthogonal to employment and speaks more about the work demanded, depth of knowledge you’re expected to acquire here, and how exhausting it is thinking really hard all the time.

1062

Bluebayou, I won’t see revenue from the guy who sells boots or schmancy sports gear or sells dinners. My family and my neighbors and friends are outside that revenue stream. That’s the flaw in thinking that I see.

I live in a neighborhood that, had my area gotten the deal, would be desirable to those new hires. The schools local to the site (or where the hires live) would see improvements. Yup. My property value would increase. My property taxes, too. :frowning: But not across town. The roads leading to the site would see improvements. No change to traffic issues around my corner of town. Not to the school problems in less deirable neighborhoods.

My neighborhood is a dining destination. So sure, these restaurants would see more business. None of that would trickle to ME and my neighbors. Those proprietors spend their money where they wish, in their towns, at their Walmart or whatever. Meanwhile, the money my city has and expects to receive is affected by the discounting on those bills. Plus the concessions.

How does some guy with a booming business truly reach “us?” It doesn’t now. Nearby, they built a mall, promised how much revenue it would add, how many jobs would be created. And, Just as with Amazon, cut their tax bills, as incentive to move stores in. Nope, I can shop there, but other than having a nice mall (before occupancy issues,) no revenue trickle to ME. In fact, the money makers are national corporations.

Any job is better than no job. But don’t fool yourselves that minimum wage, 30 hours/week, is “lifting” a segment of the population that needs a true break, a liveable income, better housing at reasonable prices. It helps a segment already doing well, qualified for the tech jobs (or some high level support positions.) It is no panacea.

(Yes, my anger surprises me.)

ps. “Availability of talent” is tricky. They could be hiring techs from other, smaller enterprises which then lose an employee and can’t afford to compete with Amazon on salary.

1063

@lookingforward What type of business should the area then look for that could reach you? Or is the status quo good? I’m honesty curious.

1064

Not status quo. But not clouds and pastel ponies, either. How does A moving in actually benefit me and my community’s needs? Don’t quote me “projected” revenues. Some of that is ‘fun with numbers.’ Do we get millions of dollars to improve schools, extend medical care, as needed, lower crime, whatever?

Later. Gotta go. I do understand we have to spend money to make money. But I see flailing attempts. And fancy PR.

1065

We now know that Amazon’s HQ2 will not be in New York. It would be mean of me to point out the significance given to that confidently assumed outcome in a previous thread. However, some of us thought it was pretty comical that it was offered as proof of the inferiority of Midwestern educational institutions. Is it now possible that Amazon, having peremptorily said good-bye to the Big Apple might end up in Chi-town? That would be just too sweet. How realistic is it? Well, the City became great as a distribution center, transportation hub and general magnet for people and goods located in the center of a vast country and continent. Sears built an empire once on those facts. Amazon is the Sears Roebuck of our times. Is the Sears Tower for sale? If HQ2 came to Chicago would that mean much of anything for Chicago’s universities? For the University of Chicago in particular?

1066

It sounds the union was the issue more than anything. They couldn’t let NY office unionized that will open doors everywhere. Sorry it’s behind the pay wall,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazons-new-york-project-foundered-on-labor-organizing-opposition-to-subsidies-11550276530?mod=article_inline

1067

If the State/City taxes were lower than other areas, there’d be no need for a discount.

Look at it this way: a discount against future taxes is similar to a merit scholarship which is a de facto discount.

I disagree. To the extent that that the State and City increase their tax base [by billions per the projection by the Governor], you will “see” the (tax) revenue as it will get put to use paying salaries of teachers, firefighters, cops, health care for the homeless, subway improvements, and many other government services. (If the Gov & Mayor are lying, or playing fun with numbers, vote their butts out.)

No, no panacea, but most jobs are not. I was born in the projects, and to the only way out was with a job – ANY job had a chance to get you out. No job = no chance.

btw: I don’t fool myself into believing that the term “living wage” means anything besides great soundbites. Ask the folks at the restaurant that used to work with AOC.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ocasio-cortez-minimum-wage-jobs/

1068

I suggest that people who think NYC should have caved to Amazon listen to state senator Gianaris explaining why the Amazon proposal wasn’t good for NYC: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1gqxvnnZYVexB

Then there’s Jeff Bezo’s explanation. http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/jeff-bezos-pens-why-im-leaving-new-york-medium-essay.html This comment in it made me laugh out loud. (I live on the subway line he’s talking about.) “The way the subways run on time, with ample space to accommodate the people stepping into the 25,000 new jobs Amazon and I planned to create in the next decade.”

I do think we need to have a national conversation about whether we should allow megacorporations like Amazon to play cities off against each other to get the best possible financial deal for locating in one of them. Is it right that the biggest, most successful corporations should be given better deals than their smaller competitors?

Everyone here points to Google. No, it’s not 25,000 jobs but it’s 7,000 and it worked with the local community and didn’t ask for secrecy and extra incentives.

1069

What? We are going to have a national conversation about whether to allow cities to compete for business? Many cities are interested in the biggest corporations, with the largest number of jobs provided. It is certainly each localities right to decide what incentives they offer, and to whom.

1070

Let me rephrase this, more accurately. Should we allow the Federal government to prevent states from administering their tax systems as their constituents want? It is a subtle issue for sure, but technically what we need to do is to limit the scope of state discretion in ways not already limited either by the Constitution (e.g., due process, no "takings without just comp., etc.) or existing Federal statute.

Also, should this limitation of discretion apply only to megacorporations, or all corporations? Who decides which ones are covered?

This is a very tricky area.

1071

I would suggest that ‘a national convo’ is a good sound bite by the Senator, but naive. From a legal and practical matter, the feds have zero authority over state and local tax laws.

btw; the Senator was disingenuous when he claimed that Europe has banned direct support to corporations. While he is technically correct, it was off point, as European countries do offer varying tax discounts (which is what Amazon would have received) to favored companies/industries (e.g, film). But another great sound bite by a smart guy.

1072

I always wonder what a “national conversation” means. Sounds like code for letting groups of politicians decide what other states are allowed to do. So that national conversation would be directed by whomever is currently in control, certainly not guided by peons like us.

1073

survey of mayors on tax-incentives:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/02/business-tax-breaks-mayors-amazon-hq2/582166/

1074

St. Louis might have a chance for Amazon HQ2.

I am not a fan of the current administration, but AOC is the Democratic version of Sarah Palin.

1075

Comment about math versus CS majors. Some time ago there was a long article about how math was a great background for CS. I agree. Son added CS to his math major and that has served him well. Likewise those Midwestern schools- make for recruited employees elsewhere in the country. Now they will have east coast options instead of just west coast for the biggest players.

1076

We’ll if either St. Louis or Kansas City will try another bid. St. Louis would be logical since it’s a key transportation center with several national ranked universities in the city. Add Mizzou and there should be enough talent to support Amazon 2.

I believe there was a joint effort between St. Louis/KC last time.

1077

Meanwhile, at HQ1… welcome to the land of $18 hot dog. ?

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/what-happens-when-a-top-seattle-chef-opens-two-places-in-the-amazon-spheres-a-look-at-deep-dive-and-willmotts-ghost/

At the same time, across the Lake and elsewhere, the famous $1.50 Kirkland Signature hot dog is being proudly served. With a soda - included! :wink:

1078

No $1 IKEA hotdog?

(I’m trying out the new reply button…)

1079

Looks like the button work. But it looks the same.

(I am replying to your post using the box provided.)

1080

I thought it would be a good thing if Amazon came to NYC. I had even hoped that one or more of my kids could get some type of job there. I do use several of the train lines that pass through the area on a fairly regular basis as there is a courthouse in LIC that I go to sometimes. The trains are crowded but adding another train or two to the schedule and/or having Amazon stagger work hours could have dealt with those issues.

I was at a deposition yesterday. Two of the individual parties are middle aged Latinas who used to be best friends but are now involved in a lawsuit. Both of them were very happy that Amazon pulled out because “$15 is not a living wage.” I agreed that it isn’t, but pointed that is the minimum for those with no training and experience and it comes with benefits and potential. I also pointed out that ancillary services would have risen up - there are not that many restaurants, the area could, with more people coming in each day, have supported more barber shops/beauty parlors, dry cleaners and the like. Many people like to do errands like that on their lunch hours. When I worked long hours in Manhattan, I used to bring my dry cleaning in because the cleaners in my neighborhood (Astoria) were closed when I got home and I didn’t want to waste my weekends doing chores.

I am saddened that NYC is not getting Amazon and I say this as someone who rarely uses its services.