<p>busdriver it is interesting to read the wiki links on many of our global competitors healthcare systems.</p>
<p>Do you know the canard about all the Canadians that come to the US for care- Canadian doctors report it is about 1% of their patients or about 44 to 46,000 people. Most were here on vacation when they needed treatment. Six million Americans seek health care out of the US. The US now has a booming medical tourism industry of patients seeking treatment across the globe.</p>
<p>Tom I should have given you credit. I think you are the one who showed me the singapore model orginally.</p>
<p>I like it.</p>
<p>“The people who want the best healthcare in the world, come to the U.S. mostly to get it.”</p>
<p>Pure myth. 30 years ago. The best hospitals in India provide much better care in a whole range of areas, from acute diabetes to heart disease. They see many more patients, have the latest equipment, and provide much superior in-hospital nursing care (because labor costs are cheaper.) It is much more competitive and difficult to get into good medical schools in India, and the top hospitals only get the best of the best (usually after they’ve made all their mistakes in U.S. hospitals.)</p>
<p>(I have personally had the experience of accompanying my Indian mother to a diabetes hospital in Chennai. I have never seen anything like the level of care she received in a U.S. hospital. I have a friend in my local hospital now - no, I won’t recount the horror story…)</p>
<p>If you look, you’ll find that wealthy Saudis, Kuwaitis, etc. are no longer coming to the U.S. for care in great numbers.</p>
<p>“Canadian doctors report it is about 1% of their patients or about 44 to 46,000 people. Most were here on vacation when they needed treatment. Six million Americans seek health care out of the US.”</p>
<p>That pretty much tells the tale. It’s expensive, and second rate.</p>
<p>Not only that but far more people leave the the US every year to get medical care than come here to get it. It’s something like 10:1 people who leave: people who come.</p>
<p>I could totally be wrong about the U.S. having the best healthcare, as with most topics there is conflicting evidence. I’m not saying Obamacare isn’t going to help lots of people either, but it will both help and hurt. Like anything there are trade offs. Here’s some stats that argue my point a little. [10</a> Surprising Facts about American Health Care | NCPA](<a href=“http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649]10”>http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649)</p>
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<p>how about thinking it through instead of rushing it through…</p>
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<p>This is great as long as we have the stomach to do the unpopular things that is present in other countries. But if our policy makers religiously avoid stepping on anyone’s toes as they often behave, you’ll end up with a worse situation than you have now. Several countries like Singapore have different tiered systems where basic services are available to everyone, but you can pay to get other services. Given the way we are, you’ll have people demanding Rolls Royce plans because “they’ve paid in” and providers tripping over themselves making ever more costly services available, and the administrators borrowing even more from our children to make this happen.</p>
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<p>Pay no attention to the tens of millions of people uninsured… We don’t mind stepping on their toes. I can only contribute a few dollars to a campaign so my uninsured state means nothing.</p>
<p>Moderator’s note: Since the topic is about implementation of Obamacare and how it impacts different people, can we please stick to the topic.</p>
<p>Posts have been indiscriminately deleted since mods do not like to edit people’s posts to eliminate perceived political content. Obamacare is the law of the land and no miracles will happen to get another law in place to mimic any other country. So please do stick to the topic and make sure your posts do toe the line. One person gets offended and the post is gone.</p>
<p>The unpopular thing is providing health care to the 82 million people uninsured, underinsured, or only temporarily insured Americans. Once everyone is in the system (and they WON’T be under Obamacare), all kinds of things become possible. Until then, we have at best an expensive, second rate health system.</p>
<p>Well…let’s talk costs…</p>
<p>Older men will see costs rise…older women will see lower costs…young people will see higher costs on average…</p>
<p>It also depends on the state you live in and the coverage you have…</p>
<p>There are 5 states that aren’t going to be affected much by Obamacare…
Including NY and Mass and Vermont. Of course that leaves 45 other states…</p>
<p>Many people in group plans will see little changes unless their plans stink.</p>
<p>Little changes still mean increases…costs are projected to go up 9 percent without ACA. If Obamacare did not exist, costs are projected to
go up on average 9 percent next year. Or maybe that was just in California? Lol. I can’t remember. </p>
<p>We do have Vermont…</p>
<p>The following link has a link in it with the costs in Vermont…</p>
<p><a href=“http://capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org/index.php/2013/04/no-rate-shock-seen-in-proposed-2014-premiums-in-vermont/[/url]”>http://capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org/index.php/2013/04/no-rate-shock-seen-in-proposed-2014-premiums-in-vermont/</a></p>
<p>[What</a> Will Obamacare Do To Your Insurance Premiums? | Inc.com](<a href=“http://www.inc.com/adam-bluestein/obamacare-vermont.html]What”>What Will Obamacare Do To Your Insurance Premiums? | Inc.com)</p>
<p>Remember that while premiums rise, it doesn’t necessarily follow that costs rise. It depends on what is in the package, how effective prevention and early intervention is, the amount people use their insurance, and what the copays are.</p>
<p>That is true…</p>
<p>The Vermont link in the link shows projected premiums…</p>
<p>There is a catastropic plan for young people…</p>
<p>Probably cheaper to go with the family plan if possible.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dfr.vermont.gov/sites/default/files/Filed%20QHP%20rates.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dfr.vermont.gov/sites/default/files/Filed%20QHP%20rates.pdf</a></p>
<p>Of course, if you happen to be one of those people whose company decides to drop coverage and pay the fine, you will see your premiums skyrocket as you will now be shouldering the entire cost. And no, with the unemployment rate so high, your company will not give you a commensurate raise.</p>
<p>And if they decide to tax people upon their healthcare provided by their companies, which is very likely, those people will watch their taxes go way up. I am sadly curious as to what will happen to a large portion of the workforce at my company in that case. We have many part time workers, who get paid fairly low wages, yet are fortunate that the company provides full benefits, including healthcare even for part-timers. Now the worker who makes very little will get an extra 12-18K (just guessing on what the company benefits are estimated to be at) taxed as salary. Not a happy scenario.</p>
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<p>mini, you’re exactly right. If not Obamacare, then those are the options, and IMO any of them would be better than ACA. The trouble is, opponents of ACA are also vehemently opposed to any of those other possibilities. When asked what we should do instead, they have no answer.</p>
<p>All the other nations have another thing in common, besides sending young people off to wars. They also do not place Big Insurance profits above their citizens’ health.</p>
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<p>This issue has been on the table since the 1950s. How long exactly should we have to think about it? Especially since there are myriad successful models all over the world.</p>
<p>It begins at $10,200 for an individual plan and $27,500 for a family plan. Above that, there’s a 40 percent tax on the excess premiums. So if your plan is valued at $11,200, your employer will pay a 40 percent tax on the $1,000 surplus.</p>
<p>You don’t pay the tax on the whole premium… just the amount above the the maximum. Honestly, I’ve had some great insurance for the past 12 years and my employer has never paid anywhere near those numbers per year for it. Even if I combine what I contribute with what they contribute, it is nowhere near those numbers. </p>
<p>That part doesn’t go into effect until 2018. </p>
<p>The problem of what do about the uninsured has been floating out there for over a decade. If somebody doesn’t do something, our health system is going to collapse. The health system I worked for until 2011 was having to give away over $100 mil in free care a year. Health systems like that can’t continue to shoulder that burden. If your car breaks down, no mechanic in the world will fix it for free. Hospitals can’t keep doing that either. We are all paying for it because they have to charge all of us higher rates to keep their bottom line up high enough to cover all that free care. </p>
<p>Unless they are freed from the requirement to treat everybody, regardless of insurance status, or everybody is insured, the business model is going to fail. A collapse of the health care system wouldn’t be pretty for anybody. </p>
<p>I don’t know that this is the perfect plan… I doubt that it is. I don’t think it goes far enough, but it’s something, which is more than has been done to date. I would think, as with most things, the parts that don’t work well will be tweaked and it will continue to change until it’s the best that we can figure out. I just think we have to start somewhere. I really don’t hear any other ideas out there for the best way to handle it. I certainly don’t hear people saying “Just let those people die.”</p>
<p>"It begins at $10,200 for an individual plan and $27,500 for a family plan. Above that, there’s a 40 percent tax on the excess premiums. So if your plan is valued at $11,200, your employer will pay a 40 percent tax on the $1,000 surplus.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if you were referring to my concerns, but I wasn’t talking about the employer tax on “cadillac” plans. I was referring to the possibility (I think probability) that people will eventually be taxed upon their employer provided benefits as income. A new tax, it’s coming our way. It is interesting, though, that Singapore can produce a quality product, while only having personal income tax rates of 0-20%.</p>
<p>VT premiums are double what I’m paying now for HD family plan.</p>
<p>…and anyone who thinks that obamacare wasn’t rushed through is fooling themselves. Unintended consequences will be devastating…</p>
<p>^Was the similar plan rushed through in Massachusetts, geeps? Really, how long should we let things decline before we decide to take action? What we have is not working and has not worked for a long time. People are just now starting to wake up to the fact that it sucks to be beholden to their employers for their insurance–especially when the employers cry poor mouth so they can stiff their employees on health benefits while pocketing record profits. We really, truly need a single-payer system in this country, and hopefully that will be the next step.</p>
<p>So geeps Medicare for everyone with the ability for private insurers to see gap insurance?</p>