Any other Republicans thinking of voting Obama?

Parent Cafe
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<p>As I’ve said before, I have a lot of respect for McCain. There are issues over which I have disagreements and concerns, however.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>his position on Iraq. Do we really want not just an open-ended commitment to stay there, but possibly decades (and yes, I know we’ve been in Korea, Japan and Germany for decades but I submit the situation is far different in Iraq and far more volatile). One can argue that staying in Iraq actually weakens the military (file under Afghanistan and the fight against Al Qaeda).</p></li>
<li><p>his anti-abortion stance. </p></li>
<li><p>his temper.</p></li>
<li><p>his inability to get the Republican base behind him. I admire his willingness to work across the aisle, which is similar to both Obama and Clinton, but if, as candidate, he cannot bring the Republican base along, can we expect that he would, as president? Obama does not inspire the same reaction among the Democrats that McCain does among Republicans. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>These are the obverse of some of the things I admire about him: his integrity and willingness to buck the tide; his heroic service to his country; his stance against torture (which some Republicans seem to have made into practically a Party plank); his bi-partisanship, which again, some Republicans seem to consider treasonous to his Party. </p>

<p>lower taxes and smaller government: The government hasn’t gotten smaller under Republicans; there is absolutely no guarantee that McCain would make it smaller. Get rid of the TSA? Homeland Security? We’ve had lower taxes AND more government spending. That’s why we have a greater deficit than ever before. Anyone wanting a stronger military is going to have to be willing to either increase taxes or increase the deficit–which we are bequeathing to our children.</p>

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<p>marite: Excellent points. I agree with most of what you say above. </p>

<p>I do think though, that I lean more in favor of staying in Iraq until we fix the mess that we have created there. </p>

<p>Funny how no politician I know of will actually say this. They either say the war was needed and the work is important to complete, or they say the war was unnecessary and we should get out. </p>

<p>I feel the war was unnecessary but we need to complete what we have begun.</p>

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<p>I agree we have a moral responsibility to try to fix the mess. I just do not know, however, whether staying in Iraq is the way to do so. We are part of the problem; I’m not sure we are part of the solution. Can we get the Sunnis and the Shiites to agree? Can we get provide security to the Kurds? Can we truly stop Iran from increasing its influence in Iraq? If we contemplate staying for decades, will the Middle East be less volatile?</p>

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<p>*Voted against Bush tax cuts for not reining in spending. (May 2007) * A responsible vote, good for our kids.
*Voted YES on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax. (Mar 2007) * Enabling the rich to avoid taxes. The AMT does need to be indexed to inflation.
*Voted YES on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million. (Mar 2007) * Seems reasonable.
*Voted YES on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts. (Aug 2006) * ???
*Voted YES on permanently repealing the <code>death tax</code>. (Jun 2006) * Why should the rich (considering the $5M exemption) avoid income tax at the expense of the poor and middle class?
*Voted NO on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut. (Feb 2006) * A military guy voted no? Good for him!
*Voted YES on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends. (Feb 2006) * More subsidizing the rich.
*Voted YES on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends. (Nov 2005) * More subsidizing the rich.
*Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 2003) * It looks like he considers each bill on its merits, i.e., he’s not tied to ideology.
*Voted YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates. (May 2001) * A responsible vote.
*Voted NO on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001) * Hurts the rich more than others.
*Voted YES on eliminating the ‘marriage penalty’. (Jul 2000) * Who can argue with that?
*Voted YES on phasing out the estate tax (“death tax”). (Jul 2000) * More shifting the tax burden from rich to poor.
*Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999) * More “considering the merits.”
Voted YES on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998) What happened to democracy, majority rules?</p>

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<p>Marite, agree with all you wrote. The other reason John McCain scares me is his apparent lack of sophisticated economic knowledge which I think puts him, if he were President, at the mercy of powerful economic groups that want to preserve the horrible economic inequality that has developed in our country. </p>

<p>What I like about McCain is his sense of honor and duty to country. Which I actually think is a value that Obama shares. </p>

<p>I really agree with the previous point about not being a manipulative voter. Vote for YOUR candidate, not for or against someone who may help your candidate get elected. More cynical politics. (It’s okay, call me naive, I will always be so!)</p>

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<p>marite - the only way to know the answers to your questions is to STAY. And the only way to get the answers we desire - which is “yes” to all, is to STAY. If we leave, then all the answers will be “no”, and the consequences of those negative circumstances will be dire.</p>

<p>Yes, we’re in it now - better vote for the guy who has the best plan to play the cards that are in our hand NOW.</p>

<p>Also, about your concerns further up, 1. I think we just answered that. 2. abortion - whatever your personal view on this issue, I think we have to have a leader who always comes down on the side of human life, honor & comapssion. This is why, I feel that having a president who says “we will not torture” is important. As a leader, the president HAS to stand up for what’s RIGHT! Think/feel what you want as a private citizen, but where would we be as a nation if our “leader” says “it’s okay girls, go ahead & kill your babies!”? Again, our president / leader HAS to take the moral high ground.</p>

<p>ok - 3. His temper. My view on that is: 1. I believe he has it under control. I’ve met several people who work closely with McCain & they all adore him , BUT - 2. Even if he does still get wound up at times, that’s okay with me - I want a president who is in it because he truly & deeply CARES. That’s someone who will really really try to do the RIGHT THING.</p>

<p>Yes, John McCain IS a fighter - he couldn’t have survived 5 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton if he didn’t have a strong will. He wouldn’t still be in this race for President if he didn’t have a “never give up” attitude. That’s EXACTLY why we need him as our LEADER! No battles (literal & figurative) were ever won without someone saying, “Press on! Don’t give up! You can do it!”. Thank goodness we have a candidate who will care, encourage & try wholeheartedly to influence himself & others!.</p>

<ol>
<li> The other Republicans will come around - and if they are so far out on the fringes of Conservatism that they can’t accept a candidate who will put partisanship aside in order to try to get something DONE for our country, then who needs them anyway - they are a small percentage. The staunch Conservatives just have to b**ch & moan a little because they think the party is abandoning their ideals - it really isn’t. But sometimes we DO need to “reach across the aisle”. It’s a good thing & McCain has DEMONSTRATED he knows how to do it.</li>
</ol>

<p>Does that alleviate any of your concerns?? :slight_smile: Hope so!</p>

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<p>I’ve been depressed all week since my last hope Romney suspended his campaign. I’m having a very hard time getting myself to want to go out and campaign for McCain, especially if it turns out to be a McCain/Huckabee ticket. I can’t say I agree with anything Obama says policy wise, but he does have that “X” factor that may make him a good leader for this country. That said, I AM VERY motivated to go campaign for Republican’s to get elected to Congress. No matter which of the 3 are elected, we will need a conservative Congress to counter-balance the Executive branch this time around.</p>

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<p>How can we afford to stay in Iraq? This war is robbing our country blind.</p>

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<p>vossron - thank you for that post. Very informative, and I like your comments too!</p>

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<p>bz2010: so you want a President who stands for “honor and for life and compassion (not exact quote)”. So that means that you don’t want to see poor women die as a result of back alley, illegal abortions (because the rich ones will just get their prescriptions through various channels and/or be able to travel to get a safe abortion), so…where do “life” and “compassion” figure in that scenario?</p>

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<p>2for - Would it inspire you to know that I met a couple of McCain’s staffers from his Arizona Senate Office. One girl is using her vacation time to campaign & the other guy is on a “leave of absence” because he didn’t have the vacation time accrued. That means they are essentially giving up their jobs & income to practically become gypsies & help the campaign. THAT’S how much they BELIEVE in McCain! There are many others acting similarly.</p>

<p>I’m fired up too - I busted my a** during the primary in my state. There aren’t many people for whom I would get up at 6:00 a.m. & go out into the dark ice & cold! I put signs out at polling places (among other things) because McCain just HAS to win! The well-being of our country depends on it! This is a crucial CRUCIAL election & we just HAVE to support the MOST EXPERIENCED, MOST KNOWLEDABLE & WISEST candidate!</p>

<p>And don’t worry about his Economics background - several great economists are supporting him. He, more than anyone, knows his weaknesses & how to compensate for them. He’ll put someone fabulous in charge, just like he said on MTV or VH1 (whichever one it was!) that he’d put someone like the head of FedEx over FEMA - he can identify the best players to put in crucial positions. Also - he is probably (wrongly) perceived as weak on the economy because he’s so strong in other areas.</p>

<p>McCain needs EVERYONE’S support - how long will it take for folks to realize that Hillary and Obama are “pipe dreams”? They both want to take this nation down a road that we should not go - AND neither one knows how to get there!</p>

<p>We’ve just GOT to get behind the guy who knows where to go AND how to get there!</p>

<p>Make some calls! :)</p>

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<p>patient - I understand your concern. Abortion is an epidemic now. It’s a terrible situation. I still thenk the PRESIDENT as the LEADER of our country should not condone abortion - that’s why I think it probably should be a state issue to decide. </p>

<p>But let’s just assume your scenario is correct - that many mothers will die as a result of back-alley abortions. Let’s take it to the extreme and say that half of expectant mothers seeking to end their pregnancies wouls die if abortion were not legal. That means that half of the babies who would otherwise be aborted would LIVE. </p>

<p>The mothers would have made several choices which led up to and resulted in their deaths - 1. have sex, 2. have unprotected sex, 3. have a risky abortion. </p>

<p>What choice did the dead babies have?</p>

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<p>Dead babies? You mean fetuses?</p>

<p>And what about funding overseas aid?</p>

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<p>Whether a “fetus” constitutes human life seems to be the crux of the abortion issue.</p>

<p>From a purely scientific approach, there are six criteria which constitute life:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That settles it for me.</p>

<p>Now - what do you mean about “funding overseas aid”?</p>

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<p>Of COURSE a fetus is alive! Few people debate that. Life in itself does not give an entity rights that overpower a woman’s autonomy, though, and you must recognize that “life” is an absurd benchmark for rights…unless you slept through biology class?</p>

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<ol>
<li>I mean the GWB policy of not funding birth control programs and the distribution of condoms even in countries devastated by HIV/AIDS.</li>
<li>The definition you use settles the matter for you. It does not for me, and for many others.</li>
</ol>

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<p>Im wondering what is less ethical- funding birth control & sex education programs- even for middle & high school students
Or teaching them that birth control doesn’t work & watching the pregnancy rate increase among young girls and women.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Don’t have sex](<a href=“http://www.lufkindailynews.com/opin/content/news/opinion/stories/2008/02/10/eddy.html”>http://www.lufkindailynews.com/opin/content/news/opinion/stories/2008/02/10/eddy.html&lt;/a&gt;) Isn’t working.</p>

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<p>McCain said on Larry King 6/29/04 that he would invade Iraq again, knowing full well that there were no WMD and that Saddam was not involved in 9/11. </p>

<p>McCain earlier said, “I believe that the success [in Iraq] will be fairly easy.” In January of 2003, McCain again predicted the same about invading Iraq, saying, “we will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” [CNN, 9/24/02; CNN, 1/22/03]</p>

<p>McCain said there were oil fields to secure and “die-hards” to take care of but “it’s clear that the end is very much in sight, and today I think Americans should be very proud of their leadership, their technology. There are still some foreigners, Syrians and others hanging around. But it won’t be long. It will be a fairly short period of time, but this happens in wars. I’m confident that once they are confident the area is no longer a threat to the Marines and to our army troops that they’ll start imposing discipline. In the meantime, we’ll have a short period of chaos.” [ABC News, Good Morning America, 4/9/03]</p>

<p>McCain interrupted a voter during a townhall meeting in New Hampshire telling him we could spend “maybe a hundred” years in Iraq and “that would be fine with me.” After the townhall meeting, he told a reporter “that U.S. troops could be in Iraq for ‘a thousand years’ or ‘a million years,’ as far as he was concerned.” [McCain Derry, NH townhall meeting , 1/3/08; motherjones.com , 1/3/08]</p>

<p>Bush has had a free hand, even recently with the Democrats controlling congress, to conduct the war as he wishes, and McCain has supported Bush all the way.</p>

<p>On the Iraq issue, at least, voters have a clear choice in McCain vs. Clinton or Obama: McCain still says it was correct to invade Iraq, Clinton/Obama say it was wrong.</p>

<p>They all agree that the mess has to be cleaned up, though details differ (McCain would let it go on for a million years).</p>

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<p>OP- H and I had exact same thought for this coming Tuesday’s primary. We would rather see anyone in the white house over Billary. Figure a vote against Hillary is more important at this point in the process than a vote for McCain (we are registered indpt, btw, as we like to vote for the individual and not the party).</p>

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<p><a href=“http://wa-democrats.com/[/url]”>http://wa-democrats.com/&lt;/a&gt;
:confused:</p>

<p>Republicans in Wa must feel worried.</p>