<p>Don’t be an ass, bartleby, if he’s unhappy, or worried, he has a right to talk about it. </p>
<p>Ever heard of constructive criticism?</p>
<p>How about “I know 4 millionaires from Loyola, you have nothing to worry about kid” ???</p>
<p>While I think it is great a lot of people are giving you words of encouragement about how you can transfer to a top 10 school now or for your masters. Having said that, I think it would be good to get some perspective on life.</p>
<p>I have lots of friends from the top schools, whether in the undergrad or grad levels (especially MBAs). Not to generalize, but while you will see the usual top suspects crowd out the profiles pages on websites of post-uni destinations like top ibanks and consultancies, keep in mind they tend to put the “best” (which on a profile page is easiest to describe with a uni name) rather than put everyone on the page. So it usually seems like you can only do well if you went to Princevardyale (I just made that up :P).</p>
<p>But! How do you define success? Working for Goldman Sachs as an analyst or associate 3-5 years out of school? A lot of very successful people I know work for themselves. And you don’t need to impress anyone with your degree because the only thing people will judge you by is the performance of your company. I am not asking you to just think about the large companies that were started 50 years ago. Do some research and find out who opened a local chain of restaurants in your area, or other varius sucessful businesses. Doubt you will see such a heavy representation of HYPSM people. </p>
<p>If anything, i would dare say there are less of these people in relation to a comparison of their penetration at “top jobs,” because many of them get so enticed by working for someone they walk that path and never turn back. </p>
<p>So, with all the blabla above. Just one short note to leave you with. 20 years out. Noone cares where you went to school unless that happens to be that person’s highest accomplishment (and in that case you wouldn;t care for his/her opinion either). What people care about is where you are in life.</p>
<p>Unless making money is your highest aspiration, it really doesn’t matter where (or if) you go to college in the long run.
Its all about your thirst for knowledge.
I come from a family of academics and many historians/writers have been over that were in the WWII trenches or were flying planes over Korea or were on a farm in South America when their contemporaries were hunched over their books in the Ivies.
Take everything you read on this site with a grain of salt (or maybe even less). Remember that all you need to come on this site and incessantly worship the Ivies and put down other schools is an internet connection and a lack of self confidence.</p>
<p>^^^ good point. this site really does stress ivies etc like woah.</p>
<p>I am old now, but I am lucky because when I was applying for college the entrance requirements were a joke. IN the golden state, where I am from, if you had good enough grades from core courses listed in the “A” through F requirements, with each letter being a college prep course, such as math, physics, chemistray, etc., you could mix and max your best grades and be GUARANTEED admission to a UC. Thanks to Republicans (such as Pete) that’s no longer the case. In any event, I partied my ass off after admission, couldn’t go to med school, and decided to go to law school. After 5 years of being so proud to attend the UC, I barely got into a middle (but wonderful) law school, USF, and every single day I was embarassed. I did study Chinese along with my major Chemistry as an undergard, and every day after I decided to apply to law school I dreamed of going to Columbia University in New York because it was one of the first schools in the US to pay attention to China and operned the first Chinese language library during the Qing Dynasty. I was so humiliated to go to such a wonderful, caring, and learning institution like USF, I worked for one year straight so that I could go to Columbia, where a higher percentage of students were “awesome”, but people had no sense of community at all, with the first person scoring on each item of a paper chase destroying the book and the like. USF students wouldn’t even though of taking such actions, and my professors at USF who graduated from the Uniervsity of New Mexico and Loyola of LA taugh me every bit as much as the professors that I had in Columbia.</p>
<p>^^^ very good post. Thats why fit is so much more important than rank. Trouble is, many times the school that fits a student best is wicked hard to get into…</p>
<p>Purehoney, there are definitely some advantages to going to a “name” school. There are not that many schools in the US that are universally “name” school, however. In most areas, local schools carry more name recognition. A friend of mine who went to Wesleyan and lives in Ohio has many folks thinking she is an Ohio Wesleyan graduate. Many outside of the northeast and mid atlantic have know idea what the top LACs are. When you are in the college “game” you are all fired focused on this, but most folks who are at work are not. It often comes down to whether they have heard of the school or not, and if it’s name recognition you want, the top sports schools probably cut the widest swath in that category. </p>
<p>The Loyolas all enjoy an excellent reputation among Catholics and much name recognition as the name is a common one among Jesuit colleges and highschools. We all have heard of a Loyola. </p>
<p>When it comes right down to it, having great grades in college and knowing your subjects well. gives you the best advantage. I have many friends who have graduated from small schools that few people know, who are in great jobs. I was just talking to my best friend who has a an undergraduate degree from a tiny LAC in the midwest and a masters from a correspondence program (never heard of it but is a legit program), and has just been offered a prestigious job. The masters was the cincher for the position and she was very worried because she has never met anyone who has heard of the school that gave her that degree. She beat out numerous candidates with far more prestigious school degrees. </p>
<p>Sometimes having a degree from a very top school can be a disadvantage too. Cities often have local loyalties and if you are competing for a job where many of the candidates are from local public schools, for instance, there may be a bias AGAINST the ivies. I know I have heard grumblings that kids from there think that they are “too good” and won’t deign to pitch in with all kinds of work. I know that school districts tend to have a cluster effect in certain local education programs. Again, they are not thrilled to break ranks and welcome the Harvard grad. So a top degree is not necessarily a shoo in. My friends son often felt embarrassed telling an interviewer that he was a Harvard grad, and he was turned down for many positions, and felt that there was a definite reverse bias in his case. I don’t doubt it. My husband hesitates as well to hire top ivy grads for certain positions. </p>
<p>Conversely there are certain fields and companies that tend to be “old boy” network that covet that degree, and someone from a school outside of that network would be disadvantaged. </p>
<p>Funny, just thought of a business associate of husband, who graduated from Wash U STL—fine school, up there in ratings, but name recognition? Lower than Loyola in most circles. I would not lament that your school is not "up there " in name recognition. It actually is compared to the vast majority of schools in the US.</p>
<p>I just finished reviewing a bunch of applications for a job I am hiring for. It’s basically an administrative assistant’s job, but still is sought after I guess because it’s in a prestigious organization and is a good job.</p>
<p>Several people who applied went to top, or very good, schools. I just read the application and resume of a woman who went to Stanford as an undergrad. She wrote well and seems really capable and has spent several years in a profession that’s not working out for her. We probably won’t interview her because she doesn’t have the kind of experience we need. I read the application of, and interviewed, a woman from a top LAC. She was really solid, and our biggest worry thinking about hiring her was that she was too “good” – i.e. with the credentials she has she’d perhaps never be satisfied with the meat of the position. We will absolutely choose the person who fits the job the best and has all the manifest skills. It matters almost nothing where someone went to school. We have looked at folks with AAs with the same sense of possibility as these others that I mentioned. </p>
<p>I’ve worked in consulting a bit too, and seen a lot of variations in how people succeed – or don’t.</p>
<p>The first principle: know yourself. What do you like? What do you want to do? Who do you want to be? What are you good at and what aren’t you good at? The people who know themselves, and stay true to that vision, do the best.</p>
<p>The second thing: personality, not intelligence, is the most important attribute for success. And when I say personality, I am not saying that you’ve got to be outgoing or have a certain good personality. What I am saying is your personality MUST FIT what it is you are aiming for. For instance, in consulting where I worked, I was smarter than probably 80-90% of the people I worked with. That didn’t matter ultimately because my personality was an okay but not great fit for the kinds of stuff I was doing. Other people had a much closer fit. So someone not as smart who had gone to “lesser” schools was often doing better. My dad wanted me to go to med school as he had done; he didn’t take into account that I was not a good personality fit for being a doctor. (I probably was intelligent enough to get in, though I didn’t pursue pre-med, so we’ll never know I guess). Finally, another example: they studied super genius kids and people who worked with them said that intelligence was not what mattered solely for determining whether kids had the “right stuff” to be one of these kids who finishes college at the age of 15. That, in fact, was a question of personality on top of incredible intelligence, it turned out. So, given that personality fit is more important than intelligence, go back to priniciple 1: knowing yourself is hugely important.</p>
<p>3) Prestige matters, to a point – and that point is reached fairly quickly after meeting someone or over the course of life. For the first five minutes after learning that you went to Northwestern, a person might give you some credence. It soon becomes less important, though, after that. This is true the older you get. I am a bit older and have come to CC (originally to help out my older sister’s sons). I almost never talk to people about where they went to college and neither does anyone else I work with. It is very important on CC. In the real world, it’s much less important generally. There are people for whom it is more important always. Often these are people who went to prestigious or somewhat prestigious schools and that’s all they have. In some professions, it is true, school is more important and people spend more time on it (pedigreed jobs like law), but visible talent is tied to personality fit much more often and ultimately visible talent is what people judge. People who do well in life stop defining themselves by where they went to school generally. The CEO of a company I worked for had an AA degree. Now by the time he got into that position, it wouldn’t have mattered whether he had gone to Harvard or to the local JC, really. </p>
<p>Now, what would I do to be successful? In your position, I would figure out what it is I want to do and intensely pursue it. </p>
<p>For some people figuring out what they want seems to happen magically and easily. They’ve known their whole adult lives that they wanted to be a this or a that. They’ve started on their way doingg what they need to do – working or getting internships whatever – and they keep to their path and are happy.</p>
<p>It’s usually not that easy for people, though. And if it’s not that easy for you, make your highest priority the discovery of what it is that is your burning desire. Talk to people. Try different jobs. Make mini plans: “for six months, I will work on a film set” for example (if you thought you might want to get into film). “For six months, I will work as broker’s asst.” Burn with interest, be systematic, push yourself, and be ruthlessly honest with yourself.</p>
<p>There are two aspects to knowing what you want to do: 1) You need to know yourself and what will work for you. I had some acquaintances in grad school who didn’t know me that well convincing me to go into investment banking. Well, that was hogwash because that was a horrible fit. See above discussion about personality fit. Interest is a key here too; I had no interest. 2) You need to know what there is that is possible in the world. Now of course some possibiltiies we create ourselves, but with others we rely on what kinds of jobs exist and are offered. I hate the fact that most career counseling is pitched to understanding who people are. The other very important part of the picture is what is out there. To find out what is out there talk, question, seek, do.</p>
<p>Finally, if grad. school is necessary for what you want to do, do really well at Loyola. It’s a very good school and good enough that if you do well, you can probably go to just about any grad. school you couldn’t get into as an undergrad.</p>
<p>About the worst thing you can do for yourself is write off your future because you think you are already left out in the cold of all good opportunities or possibilities because you aren’t at the right school. Not true.</p>
<p>PureHoney, I am a tax lawyer who has met some VERY successful people. Lets face it, homeless folks don’t come to a tax lawyer. I can honestly say that the VAST majority of successful (and seemingly happy) folks did NOT attend a top school. This is also true for the vast majority of CEOs at top corporations. Most of the successful folks that I met when to second or third tier private schools or attended a state university. </p>
<p>If you find you are not motiviated to work hard at Loyala, transfer schools,but remember it isn’t the school that will make or break you.</p>
<p>PUreHoney,
Don’t look for excuses to fail - look for reasons to achieve. The wealthiest guys I know (three of them) dropped out of college or never went, started out as a runner on Wall Street, impressed the heck out of their bosses with their work ethic and their go-get-it attitude, and are now traders on their own. One just bought his own seat and trades for himself now.</p>
<p>My second son, a junior who does NOT have great high school grades but is never, ever flustered by anything, is going to have a summer internship with a n investment banker. He is looking at Manhattan College, which is not a top college but a solid one, and can make contacts from there, and even intern in the city when the time comes. You, too, can find a way. Have a great attitude, believe in yourself, NEVER EVER think that anyone is better than you are just because they had higher SAT scores, be a decent human being, and work really, really hard and you will find a very productive way to spend your life.</p>
<p>Pure Honey: Please read this. </p>
<p>The most important thing is getting a good education and experience. So don’t ask yourself how much prestige your school has; ask yourself how much you are learning and how much you enjoy it. </p>
<p>You said you feel challenged. That’s great! That’s exactly what you should be going for. Do you like your classmates and friends? Do you like the school environment? Do you like your professors and find them accessible? THAT’S what matters. Being happy (and working hard) is what will allow you to succeed at any school, so if your school makes you HAPPY then don’t worry about it!</p>
<p>I know we all feel a need to be at the top. I felt robbed as a 17 year old when I wound up at my safety school after all my hard work. But you know what I discovered, after transferring from #50 to #14 (the safety school was a poor fit for me overall – though there were many good points I was not happy there)? It’s that you can get a good education basically anywhere. (I do think there is a large difference in the education you will get from a small school compared to a large school (it all depends on what a person needs), but if you are talking about two respectable schools with similar demographics, say #19 Notre Dame and #112 Loyola (US News), both Catholic and both with around 9k undergrads, you can find yourself getting two very similar experiences). </p>
<p>I thought that when I transferred, my problems that I had at Tulane would magically melt away and Brown would be everything I ever wanted. But it wasn’t. It was of course a much better fit for me and I really love it here, but I run into a lot of the same problems here that I did at Tulane. Why? They weren’t Tulane problems, they were ME problems. Or they were just universal college problems. Some professors are good, some bad. Some programs are good, some bad. Some classes are good, some bad. Some fellow students are mean, many are nice. Each school offers unique perks AND problems. </p>
<p>I’m certainly glad I transferred – here I get to play rugby, which I was sorely missing, be around family, and be with a student body whose priorities, attitude, and friendliness better match mine. But you know what? Tulane actually has BETTER programs in a lot of departments than here at Brown (women’s studies, political economy, and art (which is ironically now my major (though this is a complicated situation what with our connection to RISD)) come to mind). Some of my favorite classes, professors, and people to date are at Tulane. Tulane has a student center while we currently don’t. And for all that is good and holy, Tulane has New Orleans!! New Orleans > Provi :)</p>
<p>I’m not going to pretend that I wasn’t still prestige mongering to some extent when I transferred. That 18 year old in me still wanted that prestige I “deserved” as a “top” student. But that really took a back seat to just finding a school with a better fit for me. Afterall, Brown is #14, and I passed up Swarthmore (#3) and Penn (#4) for Brown because that’s where the fit was. </p>
<p>So here’s my point: If you’re HAPPY at Loyola for every reason than it doesn’t have the prestige you want then you have to change your attitude. I wasn’t happy at Tulane despite having taken some great classes. I didn’t click with the people very well, didn’t have rugby, and the partying and greek scene was way too intense. So it’s a good thing I transferred, for me. But a lot of people love Tulane, and I don’t doubt that I would have gotten a great education there. I probably just wouldn’t have gotten what I really wanted which was a great college experience because it wasn’t a great fit. </p>
<p>So if you are really unhappy at Loyola, by all means, trasnfer. I assume you are a freshman? Devote the next 3 months to transfer applications. PM me, I am an application goddess (having applied to college 3 times and finally getting it right)</p>
<p>But if you ARE happy but are worried about prestige, in a word: don’t. Prestige only goes so far. Loyola does have good name recognition, being a nationwide university “chain,” so it will have recognition in most regions in the country. </p>
<p>I had never heard of Tulane when I applied; I applied absolutely last minute because a friend of mine went there and liked it (she had a very different personality from me – a sorrority girl – and thrived at Tulane). I was in shambles. I arrogantly thought I was going to a crap hole. Then I got to Louisiana and saw how incredibly highly it was respected in the area. Then I went to classes and was like DUDE this is hard!!! And hey, I REALLY LIKE (some of) my professors. And though that girl right there is a ditz, that girl next to her is wicked smart. When I later told people there I was transferring to Brown, they were like what’s that, where’s that, why on earth are you going to go to school in Rhode Island!!! I get that back home in Oregon sometimes too! So whoever it was who made a point about local name recognition is on the money. And LOYOLA has NATIONAL name recognition. </p>
<p>So that’s that. As you have heard from the parents on this forum they don’t take school that highly into consideration when hiring. And 20 years from now, it totally won’t matter where you went to school. I mean, does it matter now what your SAT scores were to your peers? No! (Or at least it shouldn’t – it’s a bygone). In 20 years, where your degree from will be a bygone too.</p>
<p>Another thing is this: after finally getting to my dream school, I lost a lot of my motivation. Afterall, what was it I was seeking now? So simply being in a great school is not enough. You still have to keep your motivation up and work incredibly hard to succeed. Point being the most important thing is a good work ethic no matter where you are.</p>
<p>I was looking up the name of the guy that runs Stanford because he used to be a board member of a company that I worked with when I first graduated. I thought he at least has a Phd from Stanford. But I was proving wrong. See his bio and draw your own conclusion.</p>
<p>[John</a> L. Hennessy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Hennessy]John”>John L. Hennessy - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>[Stanford</a> Office of the President: Biography](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/president/biography/]Stanford”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/president/biography/)</p>
<p>I also meant to say I’ve never heard of Villanova University until I joined CC.</p>
<p>What school you attend really doesn’t matter. It may help one person get their first job, but after that it is all up to the individual. Like other posters pointed out top grad programs will accept a wide variety of students from many institutions. You can go anywhere you want to as long as you have the drive to do it.</p>
<p>As someone who goes to your school and is transferring to a “top” school next term, I could tell you that there’s plenty of intelligent people at Loyola.</p>
<p>Life is what you make it. The name of your school will be remembered for about the first five minutes after someone meets you (if they even care where you went to school). Being on college confidential can make you forget that there are lots of great schools out there, not just Ivies and top LACs and what you get out of your education is what you put into it. You need to keep things in perspective–there is more to life than a “name” school. Yes, I went to Cornell quite a while ago, but does anyone care where I went now? Not really. What matters is who I am as a person–am I a good person who cares about others? Have I been a good parent, friend, co-worker, manager? Do I care about the world around me? No one is going to put “she attended Cornell” on my gravestone…people will remember me for who I am, not where I went to school. So rather than emphasizing what you perceive to be the negative, I’d strive to find your passion and follow it.</p>
<p>I think Loyola is great and you’ll get a fine education! I’ve taught at Columbia and Northwestern and now at a school similar to Loyola. I’ve also visited many schools over the years to work. Trust me, wherever you go, the classes are much the same, as are the students. Sure some schools have one feature over another, some better for one major than another, but most of the differences are “prestige” and marketing (and throw in networking). Substantively little difference in EDUCATION. I know because my friends, colleagues and coauthors teach at a wide variety of schools in the US (I’m president of my professional association of about 5000 faculty), and we use the same syllabi, the same texts written in our field, the same exercises and lectures notes, the same material based on our field’s research. But there is an <em>illusion</em> of difference because the education industry benefits from it. A market place like anywhere else. </p>
<p>Let me give you one anecdotal piece of data. I did my PhD at Northwestern. Some of my classmates were previously from Princeton, Yale, Stanford for undergrad. Others from LAC. And just as many from schools like Loyola or various others you may have not even heard of. We all got into a great grad school. And you could not possibly tell any difference between those from third tier schools and those from Ivies. Nor can you tell in our academic careers who went to to Po-dung U and who went to Ivy. I would also add that two of my classmates, both of whom went to very “unknown” local schools in their hometowns for undergrad are now professors at Harvard. Start looking at professors resumes online and you’ll see they come from all kinds of academic backgrounds, no matter what school they are currently teaching at </p>
<p>A final point: where you go to school tells you very little, if anything, about your intelligence level. SAT and GPA are not IQ tests. My god, some of the most brilliant people I know don’t care that much about grades! And sadly, I’ve met way too many ‘perfect’ GPA students in my days who are book smart and make you shake your head (wondering about grade inflation, SAT coaching, or sheltered upbringing). “Doing well in school” is much much more about personality and upbringing/cultural norms than intelligence or being efficacious in life. </p>
<p>Please don’t get down on yourself. This is what can happen when you come to a board like this and read a bunch of highschool students’ opinions of the world. Fortunately, the real world is very very different than US News and the education industry has them brainwashed to believe.</p>
<p>I’m at Princeton, and let me tell you, people WOULD NOT take a Princeton graduate with a 2.5 over a Loyola graduate with a 4.0. They just wouldn’t, unless they were very stupid. And looking back, if you want to do Law or Medicine, it might be better to go to Loyola and aim for a very high grade than go to Princeton and struggle (relatively).</p>
<p>ALSO, tons of people who were smart enough to get into NW and UChic went to places like Loyola because they were better-priced or offered scholarships. And these people did just as well as people who went to NW, etc. You can find good company if you look for it.</p>
<p>I think what this thread lacks is a bit of reality and honesty. People are posting up feel good stories about famous people or “people they know” that made a lot of money after graduating/dropping out from lesser known/less prestigious schools. You and I both know that these people are exceptions to the rule; thinking otherwise would just make you naive.</p>
<p>Get past that.</p>
<p>The next step here is the find out what it is about yourself that you can change and go all out to improve on it. Saying that “i’m not smart enough” is a lame cop out. I’m a firm believer that there are very few things you can’t do through hard work. If you’re not “smart enough” then work harder than the guy that is. I was the guy that was proud of being the “smart slacker” type in high school. Looking back, I realize that it was incredibly juvenile and stupid of me. I graduated with almost a sub 3.0, but because of my test scores I was accepted to the University of Michigan. My “oh, all he does is study; he’s not smart, he’s booksmart” friend got into 3 of the 4 ivies that he applied to. See what i’m getting at?</p>
<p>There was something about you, whether it was excessive procrastination, laziness, not being motivated, etc. that hindered you in high school. You are merely reaping the fruits of your labor, or lack thereof. Find out what it is about you that made it that way and change it. Easier said than done, but if you don’t change that about you then it wouldn’t have mattered which college you got into.</p>
<p>To sum it all up, going to a better school will almost always start you out a bit higher on the ladder than going to less prestigious school. In the long run though, it will be your personality and work ethic that gets you across the finish line. Those guys that graduated from less prestigious schools that ended up being extremely successful? They obviously had something that even the kids that got into top schools didn’t. College is only the beginning; work hard, get inspired, meet people… and you can be the exception to the rule.</p>
<p>This is part of my post today from another thread, and I think it also is relevant here:</p>
<p>" How many stories have you heard about in which people who, in the end, felt where they actually attended turned out to be a better choice? I thought about my own husband who came from a lower middle class family, and wanted to attend Harvard. Well, he didn’t get in, but ended up attending NW undergrad and law school. Today he is a partner with one of the most respected and largest law firms in the world. Yes, there are many Ivy League graduates there also, but that didn’t prevent him from succeeding as well.</p>
<p>It was pretty much the same for me, although I eventually retired to raise my 3 children. I was the first in my family to attend college, and attended a mid-level college and law school. I did not even know what an Ivy League school was at the time! But I also worked for a very prestigious world-wide law firm."</p>
<p>The school you attend in no way precludes your success.</p>