Hello, so I’m an rising senior American who wants to apply to Oxford, specifically for either biology or human sciences. I think my ecs are pretty good (research at T10 institutions, top summer programs, international conference organizing committee), but I am worried about my test scores. My SAT is currently a 1510 (will retake) and I currently have 3 5s (AP Spanish Lang/Lit, AP Human Geo) and 2 4s (AP Calculus AB and AP Physics 1). Next week, I will get the results of 6 more APs and going lower, I suspect to get 4s (AP Macro, AP Micro, AP Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism, AP Euro) and 5s (AP Calculus BC and AP Biology). I am a lil scared about getting a 3 in Ap Euro or AP Physics though. I do know that not having a lot of 5s is a little worrying for Oxford, but to be fair, I’ll be entering senior year with 12 AP scores, so will they take that into account??
Also, what about non-APs?? I’ll be taking Linear Algebra + Calc 3, but would that mean anything for oxford admissions.
Lastly, I don’t have any international awards. I did okay on the US Biology Olympiad and have a thing from that and I have a few national awards in comp sci. Is it better to send in subpar state/regional awards in my UCAS or should I just not put the award at all?? Thank you!!!
So this is not good news, but my understanding is at Oxford, having additional APs beyond the required three or four on which you must have 5s, and which are not also 5s, will be a negative, not a positive. In my circles, this is why it is actually recommended you be careful about taking too many APs when applying to Oxford, because you have to report them all and there is much more risk than possible reward.
No. Particularly when they’re not mostly 5’s. And multiple 4’w will not be a positive
DE classes, or indeed HS classes, don’t matter to them. Your SAT,AP scores in relevant subjects, personal statement, rec, and if applicable, Internal exam and interview are what matters. Plus, to a lesser degree, activities related to your course of study.
Retakes of SAT are also bad news, you need to report all scores.
Your only 5s to date are in courses that are irrelevant to the subject you want to apply for. A couple of 4s are just about explainable in sophomore year (though still a negative because they are your core subjects), but you need all 5s or very close to that in junior year, I’d say at least 5 out of 6 should be 5s.
If not then it’s likely a wasted application, especially as the preparation needed for admission tests at the end of October could distract from your US applications.
My general recommendation for people who are applying for highly ranked universities is to forget about what you think might impress admissions. Instead, do what is right for you, and whatever you do, do it very well. Also make sure that you apply to safeties. It does look to me as if you have gone a big far in terms of piling up large number of AP classes, and maybe looking for awards. From now on, do what is right for you, and do not worry about how a university will interpret it. As long as you apply to a good range of schools, you will have acceptances to very good school. They might not be Oxford or Harvard or Stanford, but they will be schools where you can get a great undergraduate education.
These are potential majors where some form of graduate school is relatively likely. There are a lot of universities in the US (and more outside the US) that can give you a very good undergraduate education in biology or something sort of related to human sciences (although I am not sure how many would call it “human sciences”). There are a lot of universities in the US (and more elsewhere) where an undergraduate student can get good research opportunities. There are a lot of very good graduate programs that are generally related to biology and human biology, and if you look closely you will find that students in these very good graduate programs came from a huge range of undergraduate schools.
I am not sure whether Oxford is a high reach for you, or out of reach for undergraduate studies. That is okay. You can do very well at a different school, and if you are looking into graduate programs 4 or 5 or 6 years from now Oxford will still be there.
What you call “subpar awards” are likely to be better than you are realizing. Remember that you are competing with high school students for admissions to a variety of universities. You are not expected to have cured cancer or sickle cell anemia, at least not yet.
I would mention the awards that you have. However, I would not expect you to get accepted into Oxford as an undergraduate student.
Human geography is pretty much the ap equivalent to human sciences (my top major).
I technically am eligible to apply, since I do meet the minimum sat score an d AP score requirements (no required subjects and the recommended subjects are ap calc bc and ap bio which I’m pretty sure ill get 5s in both). If I am able to get mostly or all 5s, would you say I have a solid shot at oxford??
I don’t really understand how much ecs play a role, but I thought my ecs, like research at top us institutions that was published with a journal affiliated with a top-UK school, might be able to make up for the gap with my AP scores?
Have you thought about the other universities you would include on your UCAS application? Obviously, Oxford would be a reach (and one could debate whether it’s a realistic reach or not), so if you’re eager to study in the UK, you would want to include some more likely universities as well.
I’m not as familiar with UK universities as others here, but if you’d like some help finding potential good fits, speak up and I expect some others here may be able to give advice.
What makes Oxford out of reach?? I assumed 12 APs with all 4s and 5s would put me in a pretty good position. If I’m able to get all 5s this year, would it really make that much of a difference? So then, would Oxford be in reach? I do a lot of work in research like working projects in t10s, hand selected for free programs at HYPSM, being 1 of 2 HS students worldwide to participate in the international conference, so I assumed that would give me a pretty big distinction within Americans. Are test scores that big of a deal??
What factors of my application do you think would help make Oxford a more realistic reach? I don’t really want to go to the UK if I’m not going to Oxford, since I feel like I already have a pretty good shot at top schools in the US since I’ve done 2 programs with extremely high HYPSM + Ivy League matriculation rates.
Studying at a UK university isn’t really the same as studying at a US university. I don’t understand why you would choose Oxford over a school in the US, unless you are attracted by other aspects of studying in the UK? Is it only because of perceived prestige?
I mainly want to go for the human sciences major. It’s a course that doesn’t exist in most universities, UK or US. I like how it combines Oxford’s emphasis on the humanities with the sciences and mathematics. It also relates all my ECs in a really nice way where if I applied to another UK uni, my personal statement wouldn’t really fit as well. Also, I don’t mean to be overconfident, but I know I have a pretty good shot at prestigious universities in the US, so for me to go abroad, yes it would need to be an equally prestigious school.
I didn’t even look at any other universities… UCL was the first one I checked… perhaps there are more, at a range of selectivity levels. I would suggest looking into which universities offer this degree, if this really interests you.
Not in the UK, where geography is a specific subject (and you can specialize in either physical or human geography). The helpful subjects listed by Oxford for human sciences are Biology and Maths. Americans tend to underestimate how intensely quantitative UK degrees are, eg economics is very different to the US (closer to a US Math Econ major, but with even more quantitative depth). This human sciences course will be heavily focused on quantitative methods and computer modeling, especially in the first year.
ECs show a depth and focus to your interest in the subject you want to study. So from that perspective they are helpful if directly related. Whereas a musical instrument or sport would not be. There’s a famous quote from an Oxford admissions director that they don’t want “second-rate historians who play the flute”:
Admissions are very much an academic judgement and Oxford want applicants for whom APs (in whatever subject) and SATs are easy. After all the depth is much less than in the UK where you specialize in three subjects for A level. UK degrees are all about exams, and coursework hardly counts for anything, you have to enjoy and be very good at high stakes exams.
When shortlisting for interview it’s mostly based on quantitative scores, including the TSA admission test. The recommendation from your teacher may help, but it needs to predict all 5s and say the equivalent of “this is my best student in the last 5 years/decade/entire career”.
So at the end of the day, if you meet their minimum requirements for the course, then the tutors for one of the constituent colleges with that course could decide to interview you, despite an AP record that is counterproductive. Or not. And I don’t think any of us can reliably predict that decision with certainty.
I note I have heard this same thing from others too. UK universities have a rational concern about US students who have not come up through the UK A-Level system and whether they will adjust. Even unrelated AP scores of under a 5 are worrying signs about how that might go. That doesn’t mean every UK uni would reject the OP, but Oxford might simply decide it would prefer other US students without this risk factor. Or not, it is in fact up to them. But that would be a normal thing for them to do.
Thank you so much for your help! I do honestly doubt I’ll be applying to many other UK schools. Moving abroad is a pretty major thing, so I’ll just take my shots at Oxford and UCL. I know Americans with similar stats to mine who have gotten accepted to more competitive majors and those who have gotten rejected from way less competitive ones. So, I’ll be fine staying in the US, accepted or rejected.
I guess I’ll see with my ap scores in the future, but this makes me feel a little better. I think I have a solid shot at all 5s, and I’m very specialized within the subject area with the conferences, research and publications.
One more question, if you know, how does Oxford view requirements? For my subject, the required SAT is a 1470 and that seemed kind of low. Do they actually accept applicants around that range? Also, if I get 5s on AP Physics E and M and AP Calculus BC would that overshadow my 4s on the two lower-level versions of those courses I took sophomore year? Anyways, thanks for the article!
I do not think that having the most APs is what will matter.
And Oxford will have plenty of applicants from the US who will have gotten 5’s on every AP exam that they take, even if this is somewhat less than 12 AP exams (which is a lot).
Research experience might help. It is difficult for us to evaluate this since you really can’t give a lot of detail regarding what you are doing (this is supposed to be a confidential/anonymous site).
I think that you apply and see what happens. If you don’t get into Oxford, I do expect you to get accepted to multiple very good universities and to do well.
But do make sure to apply to safeties.
And I agree that studying abroad is a significant disruption, and involves some extra inconveniences. Since you would be going across the Atlantic there would be significant travel involved. To me it makes sense to only apply to universities this far away if you have a very good reason to do so, such as a program that particularly appeals to you.
The criteria are the minimum to apply, better scores will act as a differentiator between candidates (though the TSA is weighted more heavily in selecting for interview, then the interview is weighted much more heavily in making offers).
You are unlikely to get in with the minimum barring truly exceptional circumstances (eg you grew up in a refugee camp and self-studied for your qualifications). I would be reluctant to retake the SAT unless you’ll do a lot better (say 1560+), otherwise you are confirming a mediocre score (by Oxford’s standards).
My S18 didn’t get in for PPE with five 5s and one 3 at the time of applying/1540 SAT single sitting. He did get an interview and the other American there with him who did get admitted had all 5s and 1570 SAT. No idea how much that mattered at the end of the day.
You really, really need a 5 in Calc BC and AP Bio.