Yes. Was looking for some real world anecdotal stories in absence of engineering specific stats for most schools. The Cornell white paper is interesting because I wouldn’t have expected such a large percentage of TO for the engineering school but as we all know they have shifted to test “recommended” this year and “required”next anyway.
My sense is that most students are better off submitting than not in most situations.
Daughter has a balanced list of schools but advice from counselor was not to submit scores anywhere she is below 50%. I think that advice is quickly becoming outdated (or it’s more nuanced and school specific), esp for STEM majors. This discussion has been really helpful
I would agree at schools that have forcibly jumped back into the testing arena.
That’s my opinion. We don’t have data. But I imagine a school who took a solid chunk of TO apps would see a downward trend when headed back to required or recommended.
Unless you have a hook, I’d assume but don’t know - that Cornell wants the test.
I had many athlete friends in the School of Engineering. According to a Princeton freshman survey, athletes represent a large portion of TO students. I imagine it is the same at Cornell.
In the 2022 survey (I didn’t see the stat in 2023), 35% of entering freshmen did not submit scores, which is ~525 students. Half of recruited athletes did not submit scores, which is ~75 students. Therefore ~75/525 = 14% of test-optional students were recruited athletes. I wouldn’t call 14% a “large portion.” This figure would almost certainly be much smaller at Cornell because a much smaller portion of entering class is recruited athletes at Cornell than at Princeton. If half of recruited athletes did not submit score, recruited athletes would only represent 7-8% of test optional students at Cornell in the previously referenced test optional years (before test recommended/required).
I was an engineering major and athlete at Stanford. My experience was athlete engineering majors were the exception not the rule. Engineering majors were far less common among athletes than among non-athletes, with the key exception being Management Sciences & Engineering. The larger time commitment and larger number of required classes (including 4-year sequences with little flexibility) for typical engineering majors likely contributes.
If she wants to go TO and you can afford it, the UCs in California don’t allow test scores.
Less expensive but still very highly regarded and no tests allowed is Cal Pol SLO (San Luis Obispo) which has a well-known hands-on approach to engineering that employers like a lot.
Cal Poly Pomona and Cal Poly Humboldt do as well, but are not as prestigious.
The UCs have an onerous application but the Cal States (which include the three o listed above) are super easy with no essay and no LORs. Might be worth an application to SLO and maybe CPP or Humboldt just because of no test scores and easy application.
She should submit that score everywhere. Her grades in a demanding school support her application, especially if she got a high score on the Calc AB or BC AP exam. A >700 on the SAT math is good enough even for MIT, for a woman who is otherwise qualified.