Arapahoe HS Shooting in Littleton, CO

Parent Cafe
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<p>To all of those blaming the parents: at 18 he was legally an adult, which is why he could buy a gun by himself, and up until the time he walked into the school he was one of those “law abiding gun owners” we’re often told about. He had every legal right - guaranteed by the second amendment - to own that gun.</p>

<p>Unless he specifically outlined his plans to his parents (which I doubt) there was literally nothing they could do within the law to prevent him from doing what he did, regardless of what they knew or where they were. There are tens of thousands of suicides committed with guns every year which family members are equally unable to prevent. The simple fact is that guns make acting out with horrific results easy, and our gun culture makes it seem like a good idea to many people.</p>

62

<p>I’m wondering something too…</p>

<p>My offspring participated in community theatre. A teen boy got into an argument with one of the girls and hit her. He was barred from the theatre as a result. I ran into his mom a few weeks later and said I was so sorry to hear that her son had gotten kicked out of theatre. (My kid had said that while he threw the punch, the girl’s remarks to him had been very cruel and to a certain extent it was understandable that he’d lost his temper.)</p>

<p>The mom was stunned. She hadn’t a clue that he had been kicked out of theatre. He told her that he had quit and came up with a reason why he had done so. She had spent a fair amount of money after that enrolling him in a more expensive, better known after-school theatre company. In that case, the boy was able to continue a much loved activity. It really bothered me that the theatre director never contacted the mom to tell her what had happened. My conversation with her was the first time she learned that her son had punched someone.</p>

<p>What did the librarian/debate coach here do? He had to know how much the activity meant to Pierson. He also knew that Pierson was so upset about it that Pierson said something which the coach felt threatened by. He demanded Pierson be suspended from school and Pierson was. If he felt genuinely threatened by what Pierson said, did he think the threat would just go away if Pierson was suspended from school?</p>

<p>Did the coach take any further steps? At some point, shouldn’t the coach have gotten the school’s guidance counselor or principal involved? Am I expecting too much to think that the coach ought to have contacted the mother before expelling the kid from the team to explain why and tell her the kid would probably be upset? Maybe the coach DID one or more of those things. If he did so, then he did the right thing. If he did NOT do so…then maybe some of the blame for what happened belongs to him.</p>

<p>And when the school decided that the threat Pierson had made was serious enough to warrant suspension, did the school take any action to see that someone helped Pierson cope with his anger and/or at least make sure that Pierson did not return to school until the anger had dissipated? When a kid says he’s going to kill a faculty member, is suspending him from school for a day or two with no further follow up an appropriate response? (Again, I do NOT know–maybe the school did more.) </p>

<p>If you think I’m being unfair in suggesting that the coach and school administration MAY be partly responsible for what happened, I would suggest that you are rushing to judgment of the parents here. </p>

<p>I haven’t seen any reports saying that Pierson had ever been involved in any violent acts before this. For all we know, neither of his parents knew he had purchased a shotgun. He owned a car and it’s quite possible that he kept the gun in the car for the week after he purchased it. Do you all check the trunk of your kids’ cars every day? </p>

<p>Reports say the mom was out of town caring for a sick relative when the police broke down her front door with a search warrant. Maybe she was under a lot of stress herself and this impacted how much she was “on top of” what was going on in her son’s life.</p>

<p>What happened is horrific. My heart goes out to the Davis family. Here’s hoping their D pulls through without brain damage. But my heart also goes out to the Pierson family. Kids are not chemistry sets. If something goes wrong it does NOT mean the parents are to blame.</p>

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<p>I have read that Person was NOT suspended from school. I have also read that he was sent to the admin office earlier that week for yelling at a teacher. He was known to be argumentative and difficult. I have read that he was either suspended from the team or “demoted” in some way or both. The whole thing seems unclear at this point, but it seems quite likely that he had had contact with the administration and counselors before. Of course, they can’t say anything for privacy reasons. </p>

<p>A kid splitting his time between the houses of two divorced parents who “owns” a car, apparently for his sole use, can conceal almost anything from said parents.</p>

64

<p>Jonri, I agree completely with your point about communication between the parents and the school. But I have learned not to expect that in High School - public or private. The difference between the communication level in middle school and high school was a shock to my system. Middle school you would hear from someone right away if something was brewing on the academic or social front. My experience with High School is that you will hear from them after the fact, at a time when the window for remedial action is already closed. </p>

<p>Now I suspect the High Schools feel that students should take the initiative and discuss any issues with their parents, but it’s pretty clear that is not the way teenagers typically operate. But one would think that if Karl Pierson did in fact threatened to “kill” his debate coach, then someone at the school would have picked up the phone and advised the parents. Perhaps 20 years ago that comment would have been dismissed as a teenager blowing off steam, but in today’s climate I cannot imagine any school administrator not taking this very seriously. In fact, i would think school policy would warrant a call to law enforcement to report the threat. Who knows whether any of this would have made any difference in the outcome.</p>

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<p>I suppose, depending on the circumstances. As a divorced mom myself I know how kids can use the two-home situation to advantage, and I also understand that cars offer a place to conceal things they don’t want their parents to see. A trunk would make a perfect hiding place for a gun (and kluge, I agree that he had the legal right to buy one).</p>

<p>I admit that my instinct is to blame the parents at least in part. I just think most of us don’t stop parenting just because our kid turns 18 before or during senior year of high school. If the mom was preoccupied because of her own family issues, where was the dad? It is possible to “co-parent” even after a divorce. Someone had to have known this kid was unhappy or stressed out.</p>

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<p>Let’s stop blaming the parents unless they were involved in planning this horrific attack. As for suicides, over 90% of suicides are related to mental disease, substance abuse or both. We will need a lot more information about this man before we can draw lessons about this attack.</p>

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<p>I don’t blame the parents at all, but I think suggesting that the debate coach shares responsibility for this incident is pretty unfair. We don’t have enough information to make that kind of claim at this point.</p>

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<p>The idea that school personnel or even parents can predict these events seems like a pretty big stretch to me. We have a handful of these incidents a year in schools. There are 30,000 high schools … so what are there … 300,000 kids a year who are penalized, barred, troubled/argumentative … and I think that is being conservative it’s probably more like a million. Thinking people could pick out the handful of truly deranged among hundreds of thousands sounds like a pipe dream … or require serious restrictions on hundreds of thousands.</p>

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<p>^^^I agree. It’s all so easy after the fact to say “why didn’t anyone predict this?”</p>

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I found this interesting. A little googling provided context:

This makes sense almost to the point of being so obvious as to be virtually meaningless. Unless a person has a painful terminal illness, attempting suicide is prima facie evidence of a serious mental disorder - the act itself defines the mental state as having a high probability of being disordered. The problem is that those mental issues are often not so obvious as to be recognized and dealt with.</p>

<p>Elsewhere I found that the majority of people who attempt suicide are not intoxicated at the time of the act. </p>

<p>Prediction of these things is difficult. Humility with regard to our abilities to recognize who is at risk of doing this sort of thing is warranted.</p>

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<p>True, but the prima facie evidence here was not his suicide–it was his actions beforehand, including threatening statements about planning to kill his debate coach. He wasn’t “just” suicidal, he was homicidal. And his intentions were known to numerous people. He gravely wounded an innocent girl and might have killed his teacher and others if he had had the chance.</p>

<p>Some of my perspective comes from having had my kids in school with a child who has exhibited concerning behavior since he was very young. I had a bad feeling about this kid when he was in first grade and I volunteered in his classroom. (His response to things that normally appeal greatly to six- or seven-year-olds was so “off” that I felt uneasy in his presence.) Nothing he has done since has surprised me. By junior high he was trying to blow up the school and almost succeeded in hurting a lot of people, including one of my kids who was in the classroom next door to where he detonated an explosive device. In high school he continued his experiments with pyrotechnics, resulting in thousands of dollars of damage to public property. All the while his (wealthy, Ivy-educated, distracted) parents denied that he was anything other than a perfect angel. So, yeah–I do blame the parents when they don’t see the (often) obvious signs that their kid is not “normal.” Whether the Pierson kid’s parents could have done more remains to be seen, but right now more of my sympathies lie with the family of Claire Davis.</p>

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<p>sally, what has become of that kid?</p>

73

<p>Most people with mental disorders neither commit suicide nor homicide. I imagine most of us have had contact with a kid who was “off” at one point or another but that doesn’t necessarily improve your chances of predicting who will harm themselves or others. I have members of my extended family with clear (and diagnosed) mental/emotional issues but I don’t think either is any more likely to pose a threat of harm to others than anyone else I know. </p>

<p>And how many kids have “threatened” to kill somebody for a perceived wrong, large or small? My guess is the annual figure is in the millions, the overwhelming majority of which are not really homicidal. Which threats are real, which are just mouthing off? (None of the stories I’ve seen have elaborated on the nature of the “threat” in this case.)</p>

<p>I doubt that anyone actually knew his intentions, let alone “numerous people.” Some quotes from the LA Times:

I’m not seeing red flags for homicide there. I’m not sure what kind of crystal ball you’re supposed to have to predict that that kid would do this.</p>

74

<p>direct threats as occurred here should be investigated and communicated. while we cannot every fully predict these tragedies, taking homicidal and suicidal threats seriously and engaging appropriate resources is key.</p>

75

<p>Nrdsb, his parents have shipped him out of the country to explore non-academic interests. I am glad he is no longer in school with my kids.</p>

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<p>Sally,in the scenario you describe in #71, it is hard to believe that he was allowed to return to school after setting off an “explosive device” and causing thousands of dollars of damage to public property in another pyrotechnic escapade. In this case I would put the blame squarely on the school for allowing him to return and putting others in harms way. The parents would be the least of my concerns. I would not want to send my child into a school where there might be a repeat performance of that nature.</p>

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<p>Per our local paper, the shooter was 18 and legally purchased the shotgun on Dec 6th. He was not old enough to purchase a handgun.</p>

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<p>Harvest, the kid was expelled for the rest of the year after the first episode. (He also spent months in the burn unit of a local hospital, as he only injured himself.) He was allowed to return to school the next fall, and many of us were outraged. The second incident happened right before graduation, outside of school hours. He was charged and pleaded guilty, but I am not sure what the punishment was. (Obviously not much if he is already out of the country pursuing another interest.)</p>

<p>In this case I blame the parents far more than the school system. The schools can only do what is legally permissible. The parents knowingly and selfishly put other kids at risk of their son’s behavior.</p>

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<p>I live in a school district with a lot of parents like that. The district kowtows because the parents threaten to sue.</p>

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<p>It may be an unfair generalization, but I have observed that all too many dads in this situation fail to provide appropriate discipline and attention when the child is with them. Many seem to want to be the “fun” parent. Others just never took an equal share of childcare and don’t seem to be willing to step up to the plate after a divorce, or really just are clueless about what is required. When kids with 2 homes I’ve known have gotten into trouble, it has ALWAYS been when they were at dad’s.</p>

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<p>I would agree. </p>

<p>But I would also point out that evidently the debate coach took this threat seriously enough to act on it. And he knew the kid.</p>