<p>"I like the title of this thread. Another way to put it: Why are some Americans so ignorant? "</p>
<p>Do you think there isn’t ignorance in other countries or do you just hold Americans to different standards? Has it occurred to you that many of the people here at CC and each individually, would be smarter and more educated than the average in any country and would, therefore, feel impatient and disdainful of the ignorant in any country? There are some super-smarties who are actually even smug about their superiority.</p>
<p>I think knowledge is related to survival. Because for the time being America is the “fat cat” knowledge of geography and history feel less pressing. For countries not at the “top or the heap” knowledge is essential to negotiate the world.</p>
<p>If and when (and I’m sure it’s when) America falls from its perch I think we will be scrambling for the knowledge of other countries to help us survive.</p>
<p>When Rome was at its zenith it used captured Greek slaves to educate its “ignorant” populace.</p>
<p>A colleague of mine had her late-20s son and his late-20s girlfriend over for dinner. They decided to play some kind of charade type game afterwards. The son had to get his girlfriend to guess “John F. Kennedy” as the answer to one question, so he said “Ask not what your country, etc…” The girlfriend was not able to guess the answer and said she had never heard of that quote. She has a law degree from a top university and works in the DA’s office, as does he.</p>
<p>My friend was shocked that a very intelligent and well-educated adult could not have remembered that famous quote.</p>
<p>“I think knowledge is related to survival. Because for the time being America is the “fat cat” knowledge of geography and history feel less pressing. For countries not at the “top or the heap” knowledge is essential to negotiate the world.”</p>
<p>I wonder if sometimes the opposite is true, as well. If we are at the top of the heap because many Americans seek and then utilize knowledge specific to advancing their lifestyles and finances, rather than knowledge for its own sake. Sort of vocational education versus liberal arts.</p>
<p>^^^^^
I think this is good point. When Europe stopped being the epicenter of civilization, a great deal of attention was paid to what it created when it was the epicenter. Within the US, I’ve seen the same happen in Detroit and Boston. Once the epicenter of industrial wealth and named “the Paris of the West”, Detroit has never recovered from the shift of industrialism and automobile dominance to other countries and there is an acute awareness there of history. I’ve found the same in Boston since it was the intellectual capital of the US in the 1800s and has never regained a new pervasive identity.</p>
<p>I have never seen that atttitude in places like LA, NY, DC, or Seattle, which are epicenters of the current economy. I think the same is true when speaking of nations.</p>
<p>As a dual citizen who has lived in both the US and Canada I can share this. When I lived in the states I was mostly surrounded by US news and when out and about we talked to others about goings on within the US. In Canada, in contrast, perhaps because there is less newsworthy going on within the country(?), the news is as much Canadian as US or world. And the discussions seem more about events outside the country. We know very many Americans living here, and they share this perception as well. </p>
<p>No doubt Americans have access to wonderful education, and so many brilliant minds reside in the states (or flock there). Unfortunately there are enough oddballs who get attention to give the country a bad rap. Add in world press about how the US fares <em>on average</em> on national tests of different subject matter, and the US doesn’t look so good (despite the upper percentiles and stellar education everyone is familiar with). </p>
<p>Perhaps Americans are judged more harshly because they are in the world spotlight, and the ones entitled to vote for a govt that has tremendous world influence. Moreover, people are well aware of the Ivies and great higher educational options. As such, the world expects Americans to know things like geography, other languages, and basic facts about other countries.</p>
<p>"Perhaps Americans are judged more harshly because they are in the world spotlight, and the ones entitled to vote for a govt that has tremendous world influence. "</p>
<p>“Part of the difficulty of education in the U.S. is assimiliation of a wide variety of cultures, languages & economic backgrounds-- unlike most other countries.”</p>
<p>So how does this explain the ignorance of not one, but two, major world events (the construction of the Berlin wall and the tearing down of the Berlin wall) by a white middle class teen in a private high school, sent to Germany by the Rotary Club or some such, and who, in addition to not knowing this stuff when selected, apparently didn’t find out about it before going to Germany. Did neither she nor her parents think to “bone up” a little on where she was headed off to? </p>
<p>Another example, different upper middle class kid in another private high school in, god forbid, geography class (!). When discussing the contiguous states one girl explains that Alaska is not one of the contiguous states because it is an island. Teacher stares blankly in shock as the girl explains, well, you know, Alaska is out in the Pacific Ocean right next to Hawaii.</p>
<p>Like where they put it on one of those placemat maps.</p>
<p>You can’t explain this by cultural differences or poverty. Unless maybe it’s dumb blonde culture. It’s embarrassing any way you cut it.</p>
<p>^^^^^What???^^^^^ Is this a serious post? Or is this post intended to be a humorous example of “the pot calling the kettle black” ? I respectfully disagree with the below post as its broad generalizations are no more valid or invalid than my observation. Sorry, but I really did not mean to strike such a sensitive chord–although I stand by my statement and respect your opinion. In fact, the below statements are an expansion of my thought about the U.S.–especially as the below poster may have misread my post as suggesting that the U. S. was the only country dealing with this issue.</p>
<p>This is a common excuse, but that this excuse is brought up in the United States illustrates United States ignorance of other countries. Let me give some examples. </p>
<p>A) Country A is a country in which the majority of the population consists of descendants of agricultural laborers who arrived in that area during the last 150 years. It has four official languages, each from a different language family. But the majority of the parents in my generation grew up speaking NONE of those languages as native languages, and the language of instruction in the country’s schools is a home language of only a tiny minority of the country’s inhabitants (until the most recent generation). Nonetheless, Country A has gone from “Third World” to newly industrialized economic prosperity in my lifetime and sends many highly skilled students to United States universities (for undergraduate or graduate degrees). </p>
<p>B) Country B is debatably not a country at all. It was occupied by a foreign power from the end of the nineteenth century to the end of World War II. During the occupation, publishing books in the local native language(s) was largely banned, and all schoolchildren were taught in the language of the occupying power. At the time of the independence of Zambia, Country B was poorer than Zambia. Under the postwar government, schoolchildren in Country B take all their school lessons in a language that is a native language for less than 10 percent of the population in my generation. Nonetheless Country B has also advanced from “Third World” to newly industrialized prosperity, and Country B has long been a major source of international students in United States universities (mostly graduate students, until the last decade or so), even though the languages spoken in Country B are not cognate with English. </p>
<p>C) Country C was occupied and bombed during World War II and suffered extensive famine. It has a large population of immigrants from former colonial territories and a school system of government-funded schools operated by private citizen cooperatives, churches, mosques, or by distinctive educational organizations (e.g., Montessori or Waldorf). It is known throughout the world for its recovery to prosperity after World War II and for its pluralism and tolerance. </p>
<p>There are a lot of countries that take on a lot of tough educational challenges. Many other countries seem to take on tougher challenges than the United States, and do better at taking them on.</p>
<p>tokenadult: Please reread my original post in this thread as I specifically noted “unlike many other countries”-- I did not use any generalization such as “all”. Again I apologize for striking such an emotional nerve, I didn’t mean to upset anybody.</p>
<p>When I quote a previous post I just drag my mouse over the text and paste it in as it was posted. We are in agreement that SOME countries have populations more linguistically uniform than that of the United States. I think I am still disagreeing that the ethnic diversity (and consequent linguistic diversity) of the United States is any reason at all for Americans to be below the top level internationally in education. The United States has the resources to be the very best, even with its current population, as suggested by international comparisons. </p>
<p>After edit: To respond to tsdad’s interesting comment, I sure don’t get the impression that the United States is a leading country in math and science education, by international comparisons. Some of the strong math and science countries I know best also beat the United States in imparting knowledge of history and geography.</p>
<p>tsdad: Well stated. I still am unsure as to whether or not post #48 was intended as a serious post; if so, I want to sincerely apologize to the poster. tokenadult: tsdad was not implying that the U.S. was the top in math or science–only,possibly, ibanking. Again, the U.S. tries to integrate everybody into its educational system which is unlike many, not all, other countries where educational opportunities are limited by class structure and/or economic necessity. In fact, parents in the U.S. face legal consequences if they do not allow schooling for their children from age 5 or 6 through age 16. Where else do parents mortgage their homes and raid their savings accounts to educate (college & grad school) their children?</p>
<p>I live in NYC and I can’t tell you how often (daily) people from other countries take the ferry to Staten Island and get off without realizing that they are in another borough. It’s almost universal that visitors from other countries don’t take the time to find out that the city they are visiting is made up of five distinct boroughs. shouldn’t they or their parents have done some research? Right after Christmas, a young woman from Japan got on the express bus to Staten Island, meaning to go uptown, and created a ruckus when she realized she was going over a bridge. Now, bus service on Staten Island is very rush-hour specific, so it was very difficult for her to get back to Manhattan and involved bus driver to bus driver communication over the radio and holding another bus for her.</p>
<p>Of course we CCers are the top of the top. Put us together at any weekend forum and we could solve any problem! Love ya all.</p>
<p>One reason for our less-than-optimal international knowledge and awareness might be the incredible amount of hours American kids involved in athletics spend on practice, training and games. Does anyone have info on how much time kids in other countries spend on such?</p>
<p>I’m not saying sports aren’t important, but there are only so many hours in the day.</p>
<p>Post 48, sadly, was a serious post. And don’t apologize, there is no offense. We are simply tossing around ideas. The ignorant exchange student thing did happen. imo, her family is as much to blame as the schools system. D1 was in the class with the girl who didn’t know where Alaska was (fortunately the rest of the class knew, laughed at her, and she was embarrassed no end). It makes me mad in general when US schools use class, culture or poverty as an excuse for not doing their job. You don’t have to teach everyone calculus, but they should at least know basic geography and history.</p>
<p>As for this statement, </p>
<p>“if Americans were not interested in education or learning, then the U.S. wouldn’t have over 2400 four year degree granting colleges & universities & thousands of two year junior colleges & community colleges”</p>
<p>it might surprise you to know that only about 25% or less of US adults go to college or have college degrees. I was shocked when I found out how few people go to college in this country.
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<p>Zoosermom–don’t want to really get into this whole subject, but are you comparing knowing the vagaries of the NYC transit system, to major, monumental world events? </p>
<p>I agree with the poster that says that the problem here is not so much lack of education as refusal to admit lack of said education. For many, many people I meet, the rallying cry is “don’t bother me with the facts; I already know what I think.” Or worse, “don’t tell me my facts are wrong; I got a right to believe whatever I want.”</p>
<p>If that makes you defensive about America, I wonder why. I really don’t care how informed or not the rest of the world is; I expect citizens of the US, with all the power we have and all our resources, to attempt to do better than we often do.</p>