<p>Unless I’m mistaken, u§ername, it’s at the top of the very first post in this thread.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That?</p>
<p>I do think a higher % of asians go into higher level education than others.</p>
<p>And a disproportionate amount of asians do get in HYPS even after AA.</p>
<p>attending =/= dominating</p>
<p>i think we were talking about slightly different things.</p>
<p>my answer to the OP: no, they aren’t</p>
<p>it’s a pretty pointless discussion in so many ways, so im gonna leave after this. there do seem to be limitations on number of asians admitted to colleges (excluding, of course, caltech). just like what happened with the jews earlier at american colleges, in the 20th century. i’m so glad we didn’t learn from our previous mistakes…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I believe the OP meant dominating as in % of student bodies they comprise despite making up only 4-5% of U.S.’ population.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Similarly, hundreds of Asian musicians/painters/etc. would like a word with you.</p>
<p>I’m not saying Asians are more or less creative than any other race, because I simply do not have enough significant evidence to substantiate that claim. Therefore, to say that they “lack creativity” compared with other races is flawed, yet that’s exactly what you’re doing. You do not have any substantial statistical or other type of evidence that Asians lack creativity relative to other races (for what it’s worth, I’m pretty sure it’s not even a widely-agreed-upon stereotype).</p>
<p>I haven’t bothered reading past the first page of yet another rambling thread on Asians, but above I briefly discussed your flaw in case you haven’t realized it yet.</p>
<p>Wow, there are so many overlooked points on here it’s crazy. The term “creative” is so broad, it can’t be used to quantify a certain trait (or lack of it) when it comes to a whole goddamn culture. Username, you say that a higher percent of Asians pursue a higher level education than other races. I wouldn’t disagree with that, when you mean in terms of AMERICA. But what about in their native Asian countries? We stereotype the Asians that go to great schools, but that is a very, very small percentage of them. Asian countries, China in particular, are HUGE. If I were to estimate, the percentage of the populations (whites in America and Chinese in China) pursuing higher level education is about the same for each. Actually, I would say that a greater amount matriculate to colleges in America simply due to the sheer number schools that offer degrees.</p>
<p>I would never say that the Asians “dominate” anything in America (to say that they are “dominating” seems a little supremacist, personally). The Asians that immigrated to America–the ones who have native American (wow, that sounds funny) children in high school, or even the children in high school who are foreign themselves–had to have some money to procure a way here. And while money =/= intelligence, it often seems to happen that way.</p>
<p>Pandem, I don’t believe that you are racist. You are probably just as prejudiced as any other well intentioned individual. You made a generalization, which we all do, based on some reasonable observations – there are less Asian Americans in artistic professions, Western industries have been more successful in terms of wealth and political power due than Asian industries in RECENT history and that is in part due to their emphasis on creative enterprises.</p>
<p>However just know that the way you have chose to word your conclusions is inflammatory and invites perceptions that your are racist/ignorant. To lack creativity usually connotes dullness, robotic-ness, etc etc. This is not fair to the creative accomplishments that have been achieved by Asians throughout history as well as right now. </p>
<p>Also the way that you communicate your responses leads me to believe that you conclude that the “lack of creativity” is something inherent in Asian culture – as in, Asian culture as a whole is just not inclined to “creative” thinking or processes, and “creative” Asians are the exceptions to the rule. You may not be entirely wrong but this is an oversimplified way of looking at it, and thus leads you to form conclusions which seem prejudiced. </p>
<p>First off, as many people have mentioned before, creativity is NOT limited to artistic endeavors. Yes, there are less Asian American actresses, singers, dancers. However a big reason is that Asian American parents discourage such professions in favor of ones that seem more stable to them. Those professions generally fall in the engineering/medical fields. Yet even if there was less natural artistic talent among Asians, the only thing that you can say about is that we are less ARTISTICALLY-oriented not that we are less “creative”.</p>
<p>Second off, its true that despite the economic gains made by Asian countries, there is still a lack in the soft qualities that has made America extraordinarily successful, most notably creative enterprise.</p>
<p>I would like to point out though that this does not make American culture creative in and of itself. Its so called creativity has more to do with its economic processes than any intrinsic quality that happens to be more prevalent in its people. Capitalism is driven by competition, meaning that people will be working hard to find ways that are newer, better, more effective, useful, and attractive to potential customers. This process naturally breeds creativity. </p>
<p>Recall that for a while, mostly in the Industrial Revolution, much of Western industries were NOT based on creativity. They were based on labor, production numbers, the hard rigid factors. Yet because of the nature of capitalism, the need to find newer, better, more effective, and useful, the economy gradually transformed (if my memory of business class serves right) from one that was production/industry based to one that is market-based. The question is no longer about how much you can produce, because people mastered that, but how your products can best serve your customers and how to sell your products in a way that communicates such. Such a challenge naturally demands creativity, and is not exclusive of Asian cultures. Case in point. Look at Japan an Asian culture. Can you say that they are not creative or inventive? The Japanese make the best quality cars in the world. Theres an Asian country for you that HAVE used creativity to drive their economy to the top. </p>
<p>It is also worth noting that capitalism has a direct correlation to democracy. Because of the capitalist nature of Western economies, economic opportunity was created for people. Economic opportunity leads to economic freedom, which leads to the ability to demand political freedom. All the freedom of thought and action thats associated with Western cultures were not always present and again its been the economic process of capitalism thats helped the freedom evolve. </p>
<p>So at least in modern history, Westerners have found the way that works, and the way that incorporates much creativity, freedom, and other qualities which you listed. Yet recall that in earlier eras of history, Eastern civilizations have been the most powerful. So whos to say that the swing of the pendulum wont head that way again?</p>
<p>people always want things to balance out. if someone is adept at logic, we assume that they lack creativity. if they’re beautiful, we assume they are mean spirited and vain. if they are academically smart, we assume that they must not be “street smart.” but the real world doesn’t balance out.</p>
<p>While we’re on the subject of perceived domination why don’t we talk about how the African American race will in a matter of years eradicate all other races thanks to the magic of reproduction.</p>
<p>Forget asians and whites. Soon it’ll just be black. Muwahahaa!</p>
<p>More realistically:</p>
<p>“53% of Latinas are pregnant by their 20th birthday”</p>
<p>[Survey</a> delves into high birth rate for young Latinas - CNN.com](<a href=“Survey delves into high birth rate for young Latinas - CNN.com”>Survey delves into high birth rate for young Latinas - CNN.com)</p>
<p>150 post debate on the definition of the word creativity… I don’t know what to say.</p>
<p>And can someone please post a synopsis of Alone’s single paragraph term paper. thanks</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’d be interesting to know what the immigration rates were then and now. I would wager they’ve increased.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The reason for the concern is that in American society, the effort many Asian families put into education is seen as excessive. Such large commitment to studying is seen as unnecessary and potentially harmful to oneself. Furthermore, there is a stereotype of parents caring less about raising a happy child than they do an academically successful child.</p>
<p>It’s hard to say exactly whose fault it is that the stereotype exists, but I will say that most of the joke threads on here about “Asian Parents” and their “irrational” behavior are started by Asians. I wouldn’t say that Asians are generally seen as lesser to whites (though anyone can point out a few exceptions) and I wouldn’t say that there is any new enlightenment concerning the correlation between hard work and success.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think Asians are changing society. I think in the future, the trend will continue that American-born Asians (like most “new” ethnic groups) will slowly become Americanized and have less of a focus on education.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@pandem</p>
<p>That’s a funny thing to say, considering the no. of Asians in design for fashion - such as Anna Sui, Vera Wang, David Chu (who started Nautica), Derek Lam, Alexander Wang, Peter Som, Vivienne Tam, Sunhee Moon, etc. to interior home design to automobile design (for instance, both the Camaro and Mustang were designed by Asian-Americans, as well as the Chevy Volt).</p>
<p>Not to mention all the Asian-American architects and ones who started new art styles (such as Nam June Paik who started the video art movement and George Nakashima, architect and furniture maker who is known as one of the fathers of, of all things, the American craft movement).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s not a cultural thing, but rather an economic thing (after all, it’s not like there aren’t artists, writers, musicians, filmmakers, designers, etc. in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, India, Thailand, etc.).</p>
<p>Many immigrants and their families have to worry about surviving financially - which means the children doing well academically to ensure some sort of financial stability.</p>
<p>Otoh, children of monied immigrant families do often end up venturing into the arts since $$ isn’t an issue (i.e. - Vera Wang).</p>
<p>
- pandem</p>
<p>I guess just b/c a bunch of ignoramuses write about it on the net, it must be true.</p>
<p>First off, there are plenty of Asian artists, writers, filmmakers, etc. in Asia.</p>
<p>Second, there are actually many Asian-American writers as well (just b/c you don’t know of them doesn’t mean they don’t exist).</p>
<p>Third, there are actually a good no. of Asian-Am (non-classical) musicians/singers as well (again, just b/c you don’t know of them doesn’t mean they don’t exist) - many being in “indie bands” or actually going overseas to get a better shot at a career (for instance, a surprising no. of pop singers/dancers in SKorea are Korean-Americans).</p>
<p>Fourth, there are many Asian-Am fashion designers, interior designers, chefs, dancers, etc.</p>
<p>Heck, aside from the well-established names, one only has to see (ironically) all the “reality shows” such as “Project Runway”, “Top Chef”, “Chopped”, “Design Star”, “The Next Food Network Star”, “America’s Best Dance Crew”, “So You Think You Can Dance”, etc. where Asian-Ams have not only competed, but won (a good no. of the competitions; for “America’s Best Dance Crew”, Asian-Americans have actually dominated).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uhh, there is no such thing as “Christian free will.”</p>
<p>Anyway, Asians (and in particular, Asian males) have long been seen as a threat.</p>
<p>This goes as far back to the era of silent films and early talkies where AFs were portrayed as exotic, and the Asian men (such as Fu Manchu) were portrayed as conniving and devious - hence, the start of the whole “yellow peril” theme.</p>
<p>
–The Insidious Dr. Fu Manchu</p>
<p>The “yellow peril” theme continued w/ the propaganda and films revolving around WII (and the battle against the Japanese), the Korean War, the Vietnam War; carried on w/ the economic rise/perceived threat of Japan during the mid 1980s/early 1990s (remember films like “The Rising Sun”, “Gung Ho”, etc.; not to mention the murder of Vincent Chin, whose murderers got off w/o serving any jail time); and continues today w/ the economic rise of China.</p>
<p>While things have improved some, the portrayal of Asians, particularly Asian males, has largely stayed the same (heck, the portrayal of gay men in the media have seen greater advances).</p>
<p>The “yellow peril” is a major reason why we hardly see any Asian-Am male news reporters sitting in the anchor chair, while AAF news anchors are eponymous.</p>
<p>“I know that even up to the early 90s, Asians were probably taken as a joke in American society. But nowadays, you see Asians dominating the best colleges, businesses, tech firms, medical schools, etc while they only comprise about 5% of America.”</p>
<p>lol- asians have been dominating colleges since the 1970’s, it was one of the main reasons the uc’s started disregarding race. also, asia has been drastically affecting the us economy since 1970’s please don’t create examples to prove a point. </p>
<p>also, before i go on, i don’t believe in the term asian-american, unless you were born in asia and later came over to the US. if you were born in the us, you’re american. you can fool yourself into thinking you’re asian-american, but you will find you have western values, and if you ever decide to move to asia, you will generally not mix w/ actual asians. it’s a second generation thing, every wave of immigrants did it, and it eventually fades w/ the third generation.</p>
<p>now, that being said, i think that there are a lot of Asians posting here, arguing against a lot of ignorant people. take the above poster for instance. now somebody clearly made some racists remarks, so naturally the poster was defensive, but i feel as if they took it too far the other way, like over-correcting in a car.</p>
<p>i do not believe that asian males face any discrimination or unfair hardships in today’s workforce. The percentage of doctors in the Asian community is 150 percent higher than that of whites. this is true w/ most science-oriented careers. In business, asians dominate the ITT stuff. The only reason they don’t dominate the front-office stuff is because it’s very hard to break into those circles. also, if you view yourself as an asian-american, your values will be a mix of eastern and western values. somebody with solely western values will be better at selling/pitching deals to the majority of the country. this is what my economics book says.</p>
<p>your yellow peril theory is ********. you can’t extrapolate the past into the present. it’s like saying germany still hates jews. most movies about the vietnam war are anti-war movies
[Top</a> Ten Vietnam War Films - The 10 Best Vietnam Movies - Epinions.com](<a href=“Shopping Online at Shopping.com | Price Comparison Site”>Shopping Online at Shopping.com | Price Comparison Site)
^ in every single movie here, there’s at least 1 scene that shows american/asian soldiers were the same
-the stereotype is the complete opposite of a crazy soldier
-if you want to complain that murderers weren’t convicted because of race, get in line</p>
<p>[Know</a> Your Local Asian Newscasters](<a href=“http://www.losanjealous.com/2005/11/11/asian-newscasters/]Know”>Know Your Local Asian Newscasters)
btw- you’re the only person i know who pays attention to the race of newscasters</p>
<p>glancing back at this, i realized i’m just as biased as everybody else here. it’s weird though cause in every day situations, the last thing i’m thinking about is race.</p>