<p>so it turns out god is a superstition…</p>
<p>There are three kinds of atheists.
Scientific atheists: People who don’t believe in any RELIGIONS. Scary ones, I mean, super intelligent ones who would whip your arse if you don’t believe in evolution and big bang.
Philosophical Atheists: People who don’t believe in Abrahamic God based on theological/philosophical arguments. For instance, I don’t believe in God because I dig Nietzsche’s doctrine of Superman.
Gothic Atheists: This group is what you call:“Synchronized nonconformists” People who hate majority and who like to slit their little wrists once a while…</p>
<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060169544-post62.html]#62[/url]”>quote</a> There are three kinds of atheists…
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are more non-believers than meet the eye. Here’s a thought experiment one should take on to explore this. But be forewarned, this thought experiment will activate the reasoning (non faith-based) portion of your mind:</p>
<p>[ol]
[li]Take on in your mind a belief in a ‘god’ you currently don’t believe in - like</p>[/li]
<p>[ul]
[li][Amun[/url</a>] (one of the most powerful gods in ancient Egypt), [*][url=<a href=“http://www.mythome.org/hawaiig.html]Akua[/url”>http://www.mythome.org/hawaiig.html]Akua[/url</a>] (the Hawaiian who created everything, and keeps everything working), [/li][li][url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinteotl]Centeotl[/url”>Centeōtl - Wikipedia]Centeotl[/url</a>] (An Aztec God),<br>[/li][li][url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus]Zeus[/url”>Zeus - Wikipedia]Zeus[/url</a>] or [/li][li][url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster]The”>Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia]The</a> Flying Spaghetti Monster](<a href=“http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/amun.html]Amun[/url”>http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/amun.html) [/li][/ul]
- and make your best argument as to why you don’t believe in that ‘god’. </p>
<p>Don’t proceed to the next step until you’ve thoroughly completed this step.
…</p>
<p>[li]Done with step 1?..Now use that same argument developed in the first step against any belief in a ‘god’ you may believe in.[/li][/ol]</p>
<p>That thought experiment from Dawkins, isn’t it? lol
But if I truly belive in God, then my thought will go this way</p>
<p>Suggest I’m a fundie</p>
<p>Premise 1: All truth should be taken seriously.
Premise 2: God is the ultimate truth.
Premise 3: Bible is the word of God.
Conclusion: Bible is the truth and every word should be taken as absolutely true.
I don’t believe in Zeus because Bible tells me Zeus is a pagan and that he doesn’t exist.
In the next step, logically, I would say I don’t believe in God because Bible tells me to. See, this is ridiculous once you use this experiment on ultra true religious believers.
But seriously, this argument works on most weak minded liberal Christians, because I don’t think majority of Christians in our country believe in anything. LOL
They are more like a group of nihilists who desperately seek therapeutic session every Sunday under the disguise of the holy trinity. (Fight Club!)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, this. It’s perfectly ok to laugh at the fifteen-year-old who reads some Marx and declares himself a socialist without understanding any of the deeper philosophical issues and critiques, but many people happily call themselves God-fearing Christians without ever pondering the deep theological questions behind it. </p>
<p>The whole classic tradition of critiquing the philosophical problems of Christianity (or at least engaging in deep reading of the text) so as to improve one’s relationship with it has totally gone out the window in favor of this dumbed-down, cable-TV style religion. And that’s why Americans are so freaking [url="<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/01/AR2007030102073.html"]ignorant[/url">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/01/AR2007030102073.html"]ignorant[/url</a>] about the philosophy and lifestyle that they claim to engender. </p>
<p>I’ve said this before, but I do not disrespect religious people on principle - I disrespect people who don’t think critically about what they believe in.</p>
<p>StitchInTime</p>
<p>That’s the sittiest experiment that I’ver ever seen. Anyone who has even an ounce of religion can shred that to pieces.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Amun…polytheism…I believe there is only one god…therefore I can say it’s BS to have more than one god…apply that same logic to my religion…umm…Beasted on.</p></li>
<li><p>Akua…same as above</p></li>
<li><p>Centeotl … Boom same as above</p></li>
<li><p>Zeus…is awesome but heeeyah, same as above</p></li>
<li><p>The Flying Spaghetti Monster the guy who created it said it was fake and a parody.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM…that was easy…I just love how you tried to make it all serious and how it will activate the reasoning part of my mind…Beast mode has arrived.</p>
<p>All I have to say is that religion is based on a cluster of neurons to explain the world. Science is trying to use rationality to explain the world.</p>
<p>It’s seems like scientists get their unit conversions messed up.</p>
<p>And atheists should realize that we do NOT hate them. In fact quite the opposite, we want them to repent.</p>
<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060174308-post66.html]#66[/url]”>quote</a>That’s the sittiest (sic) experiment that I’ver ever seen. Anyone who has even an ounce of religion can shred that to pieces…I believe there is only one god…therefore I can say it’s BS to have more than one god…apply that same logic to my religion…</p>
<p>…BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM…that was easy…
[/quote]
</p>
<p>By your very own logic, anyone can nullify your one-god’s existence by claiming their god is the one true god…including believers in the [Flying</a> Spaghetti Monster](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster]Flying”>Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia). You have no more claim to your god’s existence than they would. </p>
<p>‘God exists because I say it exists’ is lazy at best. </p>
<p>Cue sound of air leaking out of argument filled with ill-logic (pun intended): SSSSSsssssss…</p>
<p>StitchInTime…the thing is, there is a difference.</p>
<ol>
<li>Prophet Muhammad never said Islam was fake.</li>
<li>Jesus never said “Christianity” was fake</li>
<li>Moses never said “Judaism” was fake.</li>
<li>Bobby Henderson said the “Flying Spaghetti Monster” was fake.</li>
</ol>
<p>There is a reason most religious people laugh at Atheists who use the Flying Spaghetti Monster analogy.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you serious?</p>
<p>First of all, let me quote you… “I believe there is only one god…therefore I can say it’s BS to have more than one god.” I actually laughed out loud when I read that. If you honestly think that “I believe X, so Y is BS” is an argument, then good luck getting into college.</p>
<p>As for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it doesn’t really matter who says it’s fake. Bobby Henderson does not have the power to create or destroy gods based on what he says is fake. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists (and remember, since there’s no evidence for any of them, there’s just as much change that he exists as the Christian god), then the fact that someone made up a story about a supposed Flying Spaghetti Monster and then declared the story to be fake does not matter. To put this in terms you might understand, if I made up a story about the Christian god and then told you that what I had said was “just a story” and “fake,” would that make it impossible for the Christian god to exist?</p>
<p>In light of that, I think the reason that some people laugh when they hear the Flying Spaghetti Monster argument is that those people are morons.</p>
<p>By the way, just a little tidbit… there was no such thing as “Christianity” when Jesus was alive.</p>
<p>jaso9n2, full disclosure here, I have a rather low opinion of your postings in general… and this reminds me why that is.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…I am floored.</p>
<p>Seriously, on what ****ing planet do you live? Not only are the vast majority of Americans religious, religion has a massive stranglehold on culture and popular opinion. While the percentage of adults identifying themselves as believing in no organized religion has doubled from 8% to 14% of the American population from 1990 to 2001 (last time census results are available), this is still, obviously, a very small minority.</p>
<p>More importantly, public opinion polling consistently shows that atheists are the most discriminated-against group by the American public. Questions like “If had decided to vote for a candidate, were about to cast your vote and then found out that he/she was _____, would you still vote for him/her?” and “Please rate the following groups on how you perceive them to share your vision of American society:” routinely show that atheists are discriminated against at a level higher than any other group, with favorable response levels for them regularly returning even below Muslims and LGBT people (an astounding statistic in a country with such a significant Christian majority).</p>
<p>So yeah, you’re wrong. But now on to the more important question, which is why you’re wrong:</p>
<p>The simple answer is a combination of 2 factors. First, you’re at college. More than any other time, this is where students begin to explore and vocalize their opinions on things; also, faculty at colleges are much more secular than the general population (there is a proven inverse relationship between education and religiosity). Secondly, given the enormous majority of religious people in America, atheists must be much more vocal to get the word out there.</p>
<p>I don’t like atheist fundamentalism either, but seriously, I don’t know how you can think the two are equivalent. Atheist fundamentalists are annoying and vocal, yes, but at least their arguments aren’t along the lines of “well Dawkins said so and his book was good!” or anything like that.</p>
<p>Any other questions?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thanks for the luck, but I have thankfully gotten into a University I appreciate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you know who the prophet of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is? He created the religion for fun. That’s like saying I write a fiction novel. I say it’s fake. and you come up to me and say HEY, YOU CAN’T SAY IT’S FAKE…yea…BS argument…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your point? I just meant that he never said the god he followed was fake.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why is that such a terrible argument. I said I believe in one god…
okay…
The person asked me to make an argument against those other deities that I don’t believe in… then apply it to my god. I made the argument and applied it to my beliefs and it didn’t work.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? That’s funny. Have we ever got into an argument or something that I’m forgetting?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s not just about percentages. There has been a resurgence of secularism in our society in the past century. I’ll concede that most people believe in God in the most basic sense, but their mere presence doesn’t really negate the point I’m trying to make.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That sounds like the same kind of knee-jerk dismissals Christians and other religious demographics face the second they even mention God factoring into their political and social views. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m wrong because you disagree with me? I didn’t realize you were the empirical go-to guy for these things.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t buy that last part. I’m sorry, but I see Atheists complain about Christians shoving their beliefs almost as much as I see them actually shoving said beliefs down people’s throats. You can’t beat 'em AND join 'em; you have to choose, lest you come across like a world-class hypocrite. </p>
<p>And what “word” are we even talking about? WHEN YOU DIE NOTHING HAPPENS! SPREAD THE WORD! At least religion is made up of a body of beliefs on how to live, work, treat your friends and family, etc. Atheism is based on the whole idea that there is no God. That doesn’t make you any nicer, friendlier, or any more of a skeptic because you believe in no Gods. It’s one belief.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Simply put, I’ve seen more ■■■■■■ Atheist fundamentalists online and in person than I’ve seen religious ones. Of course they exist, and occasionally we see and hear about them. But collectively we relegate them to the lunatic fringe. It seems like the Atheist versions of those people, on the other hand, try to champion free thought and logic, as if they have cornered the market and religious people are just closed-minded robots. </p>
<p>I mean, the book may be closed on the existence of God for religious people, but that doesn’t mean they’re incapable and anti-free thought and free speech or anything like that.</p>
<p>I’m going to have to second Jaso9n2. It my experience, as limited as it is, I’ve yet to come across an Atheist who can speak of God without rolling their eyes, smirking, or going out of their way to insult a theist’s beliefs.</p>
<p>For example, the replies in the Pro-Life thread mocking religion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We never really butted horns, but I read a few of your posts and wasn’t impressed. This one strikes me as in the same vein.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Obviously there has been a surge in secularism; the numbers confirm that. Are you telling me that having 14% of the population not believe in God is too much? Are we over our “atheist quota”? Is it ruining your right to live in a Christian nation? Oh wait, no such right, I forgot.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Either you can’t read or can’t count. That or you’re being willfully obtuse. The numbers I mean that atheists are the least favorably looked-upon minority in America. End of story. You know all the fuss about Obama being accused of being a Muslim, and how many people said they wouldn’t vote for a Muslim/ Yeah, well, as per the polls, even less would vote for an atheist. There are currently no prominent federal politicians who are openly atheist. Think about that for a second, and let it boggle your mind.</p>
<p>It is known that education and religiosity are negatively correlated; most federal officials are well-educated. Yet their open atheism rate fails to even approach that of the normal population. Why? Because it’s a political non-starter to be atheist. That’s why. Your flippant comparison to the arrogant comments you get from some particularly stupid atheists when you talk about God is not even close to the same. You tell me when you’re in the 14% minority who is basically unelectable, and maybe I’ll give your point some credence.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Give me a break. First, atheists make up 14% of the population. When you’re in that unelectable minority, constantly forced to watch politicians cater to religious lobby groups, give funding to programs and services that directly or indirectly are religious (yes, it’s not allowed, but it happens), and listen to all kinds of crap about America being a “Christian nation” and all that, of course you’re going to be overly defensive.</p>
<p>As for beliefs, some atheists are only defined by not believing in God (different than believing in there not being a God, which you’d know if you’d done your research), but most have their own moralistic value system which highly prizes the rationality, self-examination and self-determination that are so absent in religion. I wouldn’t call that “one belief”. But so what if it is? Because religion has more pointless views it should automatically get more airtime? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…you’re on the Internet. Want to see the biggest collection of idiot atheists? Look at the comments on Youtube videos.</p>
<p>I could go tit-for-tat on smug superiority complexes associated with the debate; like austin who posted here, whose post was dripping with condescension, or Sheed who regular drops big loads of verbal diarrhea to the effect of “I’m Muslim because it’s better than other religions because it is because of Allah blah blah blah”. But that’s really, really not the point.</p>
<p>Seriously, though, vocal idiot atheists are vastly over-represented online, in just the same way that vocal idiot racists and vocal idiot libertarians are over-represented. In reality, a place lots of us seem to have a bit of a disconnect from, atheism still takes a huge backseat to religion in America.</p>
<p>The problem both of you guys have is an issue of perspective. I keep trying to give you numbers to give you some, but you’ve both ignored them so far. I keep hearing “atheists are vocal”, and “atheists shove their beliefs down my throat” and all that - but that’s only because your reference point is that of a Christian majority, homogeneously religious country. That’s just not the case now, and it’s continuing to change. Ever been to Europe? Lots of Western European countries with large atheist contingents; but the relationship there is not a problem, because atheists aren’t constantly on the defensive from an incipient oppressive Christian majority.</p>
<p>Again, in closing: perspective. Think about all the televangelists, all the evangelicals, all the influence they try to place in politics; all the proselytizing, all the faith-based government policy (abstinence-only sex education funding, stem cell research, all that kind of stuff), and then tell me, seriously, that atheists are going too far with their newfound propensity to advocate as a group instead of just sitting away in the cracks between monolithic religious groups. Tell me that.</p>
<p>Good post…you made fun of me… :(</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Did you even read my post before you replied?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Dude are you six? “It’s fake” is not an argument. Period.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Haha, so your argument was “I am a Christian”?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again: it’s not just about percentages. I’d say the same percentage of Atheists who shove their beliefs down people’s throats are around the same amount of Christians who do the same. Of course with Christianity, for example, there’s a story behind it, whereas Atheism is rhetoric based on disbelief, so Christians probably still beat Atheists on that front. Still, I see just as many dogmatic Atheists as I do Christians. Just like dogmatic religious people might chap your hide, dogmatic Atheists might chap mine. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I hate to be dismissive of your argument here, but people’s social and political views concerning atheism, in the context of voting, doesn’t matter much to me. It just means they wont vote for someone who claims to be an Atheist. They probably wouldn’t vote for someone with a GED, gambling problem, regularly smokes pot, or any host of things. It’s a bit random to just pick out Atheism as being the one dealbreaker, when I’m sure you know there are many others. And besides, people can vote however they want, for whatever reason. </p>
<p>And I don’t see how you can be all defensive about people not wanting to vote for Atheists. I mean, what do you expect? People vote, in part, because of relatability. If they perceive a candidate to have similar values, they will likely for them. You’re basically saying religious people should get over their views so Atheists can stop feeling left out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That doesn’t make it right, and that’s kind of what I’m talking about. The government giving funding to religious organizations isn’t illegal. They’ve always done that, and they do it for good reason. The day I see religion written into law will be the day I concede the point and tell you that you’re absolutely right about this. Until then, having traces of religious consideration in our government and politics isn’t much of an argument, considering that’s always been the case, and it never really was “the problem”. The fact that religious people can’t write their religion into law under any circumstances is secular in nature. Whether or not Atheists can be elected isn’t proof of this country being a theocracy. It just means Atheists bear a certain social stigma that I don’t see them being too cut up about. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Religion has all those things, but they don’t tout them above their faith in a higher power. It’s not about understanding the self for the sake of it.</p>