are colleges racist?

[IndianParent]

<p>

If you value the career/earnings prospects post-graduation, but not prestige, why do you repeatedly single out HYPSM as the gold standard? Why aren’t Asians beating down the doors to Colgate University?

</p>

<p>I never even heard of Colgate University. Never even recruited an alumni from there. Perhaps Colgate needs to do a better job selling itself to Asians.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

One thing I noticed is that we tend to embrace the positive aspects of the stereotype, and rail against the negative. So several posters embrace the ‘hard working, high expectation’ aspect of the Asian stereotype as true (since these qualities are seen as virtuous) but feel then get upset when the ‘conformist, not innovative’ aspect of the stereotype is brought up.

</p>

<p>I have never seen any Asian get upset of the conformist label. It is considered a virtue among Asians. The not innovative BS is just not true, that’s why Asians get upset over it.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

It’s also very interesting in this discussion that when it comes to admissions, there is a suggestion that want to see less stereotypical Asians, but we want to see more stereotypical African Americans. From the few posts here about African American students and admissions, there is a subtle bias from some posters against middle class suburban African American students–as though that doesn’t ‘count’ in trying to create a diverse class.

</p>

<p>I personally don’t want to see either less or more stereotypical Asians or African Americans. I am pretty much blind to racial stereotypes. However, I do want to see people from lower SES regardless of race - African American or Asian or White or Latino/a, multi-ethnic, whatver. I just don’t think any middle to uppser income group deserves any thumb on the scale - regardless of race.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

I also recall IndianParent writing something to the effect that he will advise all Asian applicants to be untruthful regarding their plans for study (i.e., don’t disclose STEM interests).

</p>

<p>I did indeed. Say that you want to major in goatherding. Apparently AdComs eat that excrement up like it is on sale.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

According to Fabrizio, that there isn’t an “Asian” perspective, or “Asian” behavior, or “Asian” anything. And that it is racist to suggest such a thing.

</p>

<p>Well then according to Fabrizio IndianParent is a racist</p>

<p>IndianParent wrote:

So what does this mean in practice? Stop piano and violin, immediately. Start a guitar, encourage your kid to start a rock band, or if you must follow piano, go for jazz piano. Go for theater, an EC Asians don’t usually do. Go for poetry and writing and politics and economics - et cetra. For heavens sake, don’t go for math or physics or engineering. They are the kiss of death. You can teach your kid to be a top-notch mathematician, but hide that in the applications. </p>

<p>Play some sports. Play lacrosse. Fence. Whatever. Just avoid whatever the other Asian kids are doing. </p>

<p>Basically make your kid a Caucasian Robot. The adcoms will eat that up.

</p>

<p>We can see that IndianParent is certainly racist against Caucasions and brings up many stereotypes but I didn’t see Fabrizio complaining about that.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

So, here is my reasoning. URM favoritism has not to do with feeling bad for certain races or anything of that sort. It is simply that to give assistance the Feds require institutions to bring in URMs. Adcoms don’t care where they come from, wealthy AfAm doctors or the poor. They merely need enough people who’ve checked the AfAm box. Whites give more. Smart Asians demoralize whites. So choke them Asians up. Simple economic theory: keep Fed money flowing at one end, keep white giving flowing at the other.

</p>

<p>Spot on. This is why Asians need to donate more - both to politicians and to universities. They certainly can afford to. But they don’t, which is a shame.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

We can see that IndianParent is certainly racist against Caucasions and brings up many stereotypes but I didn’t see Fabrizio complaining about that.

</p>

<p>Sarchasm - the gulf between the sarcastic and the naive.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Spot on. This is why Asians need to donate more - both to politicians and to universities. They certainly can afford to.

</p>

<p>IndianParent is at it again, more stereotyping of Asians!</p>

[Bay]

<p>We can now also add “conformists” to IndianParent’s list of Asian characteristics.</p>

[performersmom]

<p>I am uncomfortable with using race to define and categorize applicants. It reinforces stereotypes, accurate or not.
It reinforces and shows approval for racial stereotyping.
National pride and cultural patterns would NOT be violated if these races boxes were removed, IMO.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Sarchasm - the gulf between the sarcastic and the naive.

</p>

<p>hahaha that was such a good one IP…ROFL!</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

I think IndianParent also said that Asians don’t donate money or assimilate well. I don’t remember fabrizio getting bent out of shape over those comments.

</p>

<p>I did say that. I also said something else, that people here who are extolling the social and moral responsibilities of the colleges need to look at the donation angle and concede that colleges are just money grabbing prostitutes. As for the second, I said that it shouldn’t matter. There is no rule that anyone has to assimilate.</p>

[Bay]

<p>

National pride and cultural patterns would NOT be violated if these races boxes were removed, IMO.

</p>

<p>It is my understanding that these boxes are required to be included by the federal government, their purpose being to monitor (and prevent) racial discrimination. The colleges do not have a choice but to include the question (which, remember, to answer is optional).</p>

[texaspg]

<p>[Saturday</a> Night Live - White Like Me - Video - NBC.com](<a href=“http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/white-like-me/278716/]Saturday”>http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/white-like-me/278716/)</p>

[Bay]

<p>IP,
I have no quibble with what you have written about Asians; it is free speech and I think all opinions are valid. We are merely pointing out to those readers who imply that it is the pro-AA side who is impugning Asians that they are wrong.</p>

[limabeans01]

<p>

Quote:
If you value the career/earnings prospects post-graduation, but not prestige, why do you repeatedly single out HYPSM as the gold standard? Why aren’t Asians beating down the doors to Colgate University?</p>

<p>IP: I never even heard of Colgate University. Never even recruited an alumni from there. Perhaps Colgate needs to do a better job selling itself to Asians.

</p>

<p>Colgate has no “pedigree” that is why IP has never heard of it. He is not interested in the academic training a university can provide as he earlier stated:</p>

<p>

IP: Why is going to a top academic institution important? It’s pedigree to some extent, but truly what you get is the network. You reap the benefits of that for the rest of your life. It is most certainly not the academic training.

</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>Guys, can I explain something really simple? Racial stereotyping doesn’t hurt. Discriminating based on racial stereotypes hurt, and hence are illegal.</p>

<p>It is OK to say that Asians in general eat a lot of rice. It is not OK to say that because Elite Us need a mix of rice and pasta eaters there should be a cap on Asians. I do the former. Many of you routinely do the latter. You know who you are. That’s racism, plain and simple.</p>

<p>Also, the way to express racial stereotypes has a lot to do with whether it is OK or not. Saying that this is yeat another Asian kid who is math whiz is different from saying that this is yet another Asian kid who is a math grind. Saying that this is yet another Asian kid who is a piano virtuoso is different from saying that this is yet another Asian kid who - no suprise, wink wink, nod nod - plays the piano. Same attribute is being described, but one in a negative and another is a positive way. Racists usually choose the negative.</p>

[performersmom]

<p>IP’s stance IS racist, if you mean applying stereotypes to groups is racist. God or bad ones!
Indan Parent,
Please forgive me for talking about you in the 3rd person. And for putting too much of an interpretation of what you are doing here. I am just trying to put it into perspective. It is not a judgement of your beliefs, per se. But I admit I do value your contributions.</p>

<p>IP has a uniquely open style of communication here, and pragmatic approach.
He says Asians want something and value it more, right or wrong, and act in conformity.
His conception is that this is a game and he wants the rules to be fair to Asians. </p>

<p>What is refreshing about this is that he is totally honest about a controversial opinion!! He is allowing others to see his line of logic.
He is revealing one perspective, which could reasonably be held by others. It seems to feel like that of an outsider striving for acceptance, but applying the biases from his culture.
So it is interesting.
It is not a moral stance, but a purely pragmatic one.</p>

<p>His stance is not about “colleges are philosophically hypocritical by being racist”. It is “Hey, of course, colleges are racist, looking for money, etc. And people are looking for perspective. But Asians want equal access. They are superior academically so why are more of them getting in?”</p>

<p>Of course, the are “errors” in his stance LOL. And cultural biases. And so forth.</p>

<p>But is a new take for this website to hear in detail.</p>

[Bay]

<p>So racial stereotyping is only racist if it is negative? Are these traits positive or negative: Conformist; Does not donate money; Does not assimilate well.</p>

[Bay]

<p>performersmom,
How about putting your positive spin on the other side of the argument? It is just as valid.</p>