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<p>You claimed that UCB is full of insufferable prima donnas, who can’t string two sentences together, or don’t speak English, or pick their noses. Is that correct?</p>
<p>No, it is not correct. I claimed that the college admissions profile I described in my post essentially describes UCB. No recommendations or interviews (opinions or personal characteristics considered), no race considerations, and close to 50% of the student body is Asian. So naturally, there certainly could be plenty of prima donnas who can’t string two sentences together or don’t speak English or pick their noses, because there is no filter for those characteristics in the process.</p>
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<p>It naturally could be, as everything is possible. But is it probable? </p>
<p>Could people who have the highest academic standards not be able to string two sentences together or speak English? Very unlikely. </p>
<p>Could they pick their noses every now and then? Since no college admissions system checks under the nails, I fail to see how that is relevant. </p>
<p>As for insufferable prima donnas, one person’s insufferable is another person’s brilliant, so no point in debating that.</p>
<p>So, while it is possible, it is certainly not probable.</p>
<p>Now, why did you feel the need to throw in 50% Asians in the mix? Do you think Asians predominantly have these characteristics, and subjective criteria would have smoked it out? If you do, that is major league racist. If you don’t, then I don’t see the relevance of throwing in 50% Asians , unless you are just peeved that the system, indeed, results in 50% Asians. That’s racist, too.</p>
<p>Perhaps time for some self-reflection is in order here.</p>
<p>Indianparent wrote:
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<p>I think that qualifies as a <em>non sequitor</em> . I’m suggesting that it would be justifiable for colleges to ask ALL candidates regardless of color or national origin what they plan to do when they grow up. Some, if not most, will say they don’t know. So far, you are the only CC poster to suggest that Asian kids lie if asked. In most American courtrooms that would be considered PERJURY.</p>
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<p>A college application is not a courtroom. Otherwise the kid who lies about collecting manhole covers and goatherding would end up in jail, too.</p>
<p>I didn’t know that most if not all kids answer that they don’t know. In that case, I would recommend that Asian kids answer that they don’t know either. However, I don’t understand why colleges keep asking the same old, tired question, if most if not all answer that they don’t know. It leads me to believe that most kids do not answer that they don’t know. They likely feed the AdComs some nonsense about how they want to change the world (they may even believe it, too). Which is why I recommend Asian kids to do the same.</p>
<p>There has been a lot of discussion about how there is a lot of advantage in an Asian kid portraying himself/herself as a Caucasian clone. It breaks the conforming minority mold by getting into the conforming majority mold. Somehow that is considered to be non-conforming and demonstrative of individuality. While that makes no sense, when in Rome …</p>
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<p>In other words, acceptance rate for legacies is 30%, while the general acceptance rate is is in single digits. Why would Asians not want their kids to have the similar three-fold advantage? As the richest ethnic group in the USA in terms of income, they can certainly swing the tide in their favor.</p>
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<p>As Mugatu said, “I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!”</p>
<p>Wasn’t it you who claimed that with the admissions process you prescribe, HYPS will be at least 50% Asian?? That is why I used that number, because I was describing how I interpreted your vision for the process. I am regurgitating what I remember YOU either implying or outright stating on this thread.</p>
<p>But once again, I get the feeling that you are really just trying to avoid my question.</p>
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<p>Plenty of these at HYP too, but dang they can herd goats.</p>
<p>Herd goats while playing the oboe.</p>
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<p>Earlier in this thread (which you would know if you had read it), someone posted data showing that in terms of income, Asian applicants are similar to Latinos.</p>
<p>Indianparent:
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<p>You know what? If you think you can anticipate what will grab a Harvard adcom’s attention in any given year, I say, go for it. May the best liars win!</p>
<p>TANGENT WARNING
Time for you folks to get out of the cities.
You guys act like there is something weird and unusual about goat keeping. Both my daughters have friends that show goats through 4H. The wind instrument playing goat keepers are all over the place. </p>
<p>Now if you really want your application to be noticed, get a mule…</p>
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<p>It is very doubtful that there are many of these at HYPS, other than prima donnas. </p>
<p>That is the point. HYPS are private colleges who want to pick and choose their students based on a whole host of factors, including whether they can goatherd, add to racial diversity, speak English or pick their noses in front of an interviewer. There is nothing unlawful, immoral, or otherwise wrong with a private business making these types of decisions about whom they would like to admit, and they do it because they believe that it will make their universities better than those which do not do it. So far, their process has proven to be the correct one.</p>
<p>IP and others do not want private colleges to be allowed to consider these things. It appears that they would prefer that all colleges operate like the UCs. Why should HYPS operate like the UCs, when their current process works so well?</p>
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<p>For the few tigered Asian kids I know, their parents have chosen their EC’s, the classes they take in HS, and WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO MAJOR IN (yuk!). The kids are resigned to do as their parents wish. I know this is anecdotal but I do think their is a grain of truth to it.</p>
<p>IP (or any other Asian parents/students): Is it true that the tiger parents will pick out their child’s major? If this is true then how can IP even begin to answer the above question truthfully that tigered kids “don’t know” what they want to be when they grow up? Maybe they don’t know what they want to be BUT they do know what they are going to be.</p>
<p>…and if that mule comes with 40 acres, all the better!</p>
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<p>We have llamas and I still got an 800 on my math SAT II! I wonder if there is a correlation?</p>
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<p>Humm, are you sure that I claimed such thing? Since I have no recollection of ever having discussed manhole covers or supported “quirky” candidates, I am afraid you are a tad off. </p>
<p>I did, however, discuss goat herding when I related the anecdote about the brilliant candidate of Central Texas who picked Rhodes College over Yale. Fwiw, my story was about the fact that a SINGLE element of an application does NOT define an applicant, especially a trivial activity such as being a ranch help.</p>
<p>One of the greatest areas of disagreement between us (or our stated positions at least) is that you seem to focus on one element (race) and suggest that adcoms are equally focused on this element to respect the existing order (*read apply quotas.) You also seem to believe that the adcoms are conscious or unconscious racists or were not trained properly to overcome their prejudices. I do, however, think that adcoms do actually make a very deliberate effort to NOT allow prejudices (if they in fact exist) to permeate their analyses. I also believe that they work towards composing the very best class they can, and do this with EXTREME objectivty and realism. In addition, contrary to any of us, they do not have to make their choices without evidence and full knowledge of the current class of applicants and ALL past classes.</p>
<p>When we look at the outcome and statistics of admissions, we have to realize that only one of each 10 or 20 applicants makes it. The reverse is that 90 to 95 percent of all applicants are disappointed by the outcome at our most selective schools. While nobody could be happy about this, the whining and complaining seems to come from the same corners and from people who chose and prefer to NOT understand the process very well. </p>
<p>Of course, one could say that it is hard to understand why the system that created a tangible imbalance reached its natural limit.</p>
<p>limabeans, </p>
<p>800 on the SAT II Math II subject test equates to 88th percentile:</p>
<p><a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;
<p>It’s kind of expected to hit an 800 on it if you are not a URM and hoping to get a serious look by Ivy admissions.</p>
<p>I think if someone uses llamas or other funny animals to get into HYP, then they should have to room with them while they are there.</p>
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<p>A few years ago, I saw statistics about the wealth of various ethnic groups in California. As expected the Asians presented the dual image of the “richer” Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, or Korean versus the “poorer” Laotians, Vietnamese, Hmongs. This seems to correspond to the studies that track the level of parental education among the various groups of immigrants.</p>