are colleges racist?

[IndianParent]

<p>Dude, You should really post under your regular moniker. It’s more funny that way.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>“How many of you have had the experience of going from minority to majority or vice versa? What if that’s an important insight? What if its related to the success of first gen immigrants?
I have. I don’t think there’s much of an insight there. I had a culture shock and dealt with it. The success is not related to the culture shock at all. It has to do with thousands of years of history in Asia where the academically successful rule the country.”</p>

<p>Must be nice to think you have it all figured out. Do you mind saying how old your kids are?</p>

<p>I am open to most possibilities, but I meant, what if “formative years” in the “majority” plays a role in the success of immigrants? </p>

<p>My H came here at age eight. He is a much harder working. He worked VERY hard at assimilating at that age, a tough thing to do amidst conflicting messages. My mom was 1st gen West Indian, and SHE said don’t marry a West Indian, because of how the men treat their woman. </p>

<p>It’s complicated.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’d say H believes hard work pays off more than anything, but he is WAY more “race aware” than I am. I so appreciate how we temper each other’s values, as I am a little hung up on the idea that our kids not kill anybody, and not kill themselves. Used to be suicide, eating disorders, where very rare among African Americans.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>No, I won’t tell you how old my kid is, except that my kid is born and brought up in the USA.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>Thanks for your response.</p>

<p>OK everyone’, can we come together in the name of food? Just steamed two pounds of the biggest, livliest spot prawns. I love the heads and bodies, but not sure what to do with the steamed roe; Anybody?</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>Indianparent wrote:

Quote:
“So the question is: if one group becomes so dominant that other groups choose to go to other schools as a result, and the school then stops attracting the best students, is it a problem?” </p>

<p>Was it a problem when African Americans moved en masse to the cities and caused the White flight to the suburbs? Of course it was, but whose problem was it? The African Americans, the cities for not putting in a place a racial cap, or the people who flew the neighborhood when it started to looked unfamiliar?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Malcolm X would agree with you. In fact, the parallels between his rhetoric and your’s are rather striking. You both eschew sympathy and pity; you both enjoy resorting to hyperbole to make your points. And, you both emphasize racial solidarity and pride. I think where you part ways is that Malcolm X wouldn’t have been nearly as afraid to take on white racism directly instead of using other people of color as pawns.</p>

[sewhappy]

<p>I really admire JHS’s posts a lot. But he frequently refers to the African American racial experience as central to our nation’s history. Is it blasphemy for me to admit to thinking it is very important but not THE central aspect of our history, perhaps not even A central aspect of our history?</p>

<p>I think it’s maybe here that the big divide exists in perspectives on this thread. A lot of people seem to think race, racism, past injustices, persisting gaps in educational achievement along racial lines – all those things are the most important things for us as a nation to be addressing, fixing, mitigating, erecting policies to solve. It is something of a professional franchise for many, particularly in government and academia.</p>

<p>I think I instinctively believe that racial problems are easing, have been for awhile now and that the country is basically doing a good job – despite more than because of all the policies, interventions, etc.</p>

<p>I basically think that using race for things like selecting for elite schools foments racial anger and racial problems. I know the intent is noble, though.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>I don’t know, Sewhappy. In light of the Civil War, which almost ended our nation, I think race was pretty central. I just read a spectacular book on the subject called “The Warmth of Other Suns.”</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>^ LOVED the pictures!</p>

<p>How about “Why the Fought; The Real Reason for the Civil War”.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Malcolm X would agree with you. In fact, the parallels between his rhetoric and your’s are rather striking. You both eschew sympathy and pity; you both enjoy resorting to hyperbole to make your points. And, you both emphasize racial solidarity and pride. I think where you part ways is that Malcolm X wouldn’t have been nearly as afraid to take on white racism directly instead of using other people of color as pawns.

</p>

<p>Truth be told, I have seen far less evidence of harm caused by White racism than by AA. Like I said before, I never faced any overt racism in the USA till I came to know that Elite Us have a quota. Now, if the CA, FL, and TX experiences showed that it was Whites who were taking Asian’s seats, that would have been one thing. But it isn’t. It’s URMs. So why should I start to jump up and down about White racism? As it is majority of the Whites in HYPSM belong to two groups. The bigger group are Jews, a minority group just like Asians, and worthy rivals when it comes to academics. The second group is comprised of legacies, some athletes, donors, celebrities, development candidates etc. That’s not White by design. It’s White by history and resources, and both will change in a couple of generations in favor of Asians. So it would be stupid for me to go there.</p>

[GA2012MOM]

<p>No comment, just want to know what IP is smokin’.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>I have too. Childhood in Africa and Japan. (Thailand too but I don’t remember it.) Five years in Germany as an adult. I was more American than I thought I was. Or the Germans were more German. One or the other. :)</p>

[mathmom]

<p>

Truth be told, I have seen far less evidence of harm caused by White racism than by AA. Like I said before, I never faced any overt racism in the USA till I came to know that Elite Us have a quota.

You keep saying this like it’s a fact. It’s not.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>You mean I don’t know what my own experience has been? This is getting ridiculous.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>Sorry it’s the Elite Universities “have a quota” that’s not fact. I’m glad you’ve experienced no racism here. That hasn’t been true for my sister-in-law who is half Japanese.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Sorry it’s the Elite Universities “have a quota” that’s not fact. I’m glad you’ve experienced no racism here. That hasn’t been true for my sister-in-law who is half Japanese.

</p>

<p>OK, they have racial preferences that is not a quota, but magically ends up in a quota.</p>

[lake42ks]

<p>

Asians - not because they are born geniuses, but because they are made to work hard by their parents - would take most of the seats (like Jews before them) in merit-based admissions.

</p>

<p>

School hours are 8:30 to 3. For the life of me I can’t understand why school hours have to be so long. I never had more than 4 hours of school till 8th grade.

</p>

<p>And you call yourself a Tiger, IP?</p>

<p>Tiger parenting is waaay over-valued. Your kid’s achievement has little to do with your pushing, and he might need only 3 hours of schooling a day (i.e., smarter than you). Just ask sewhappy how much push she did, or ask mathmom.</p>

<p>I suspect that most if not all kids with a 2400/36 first try, all 5s on 14-18 APs and straight As have IQ over 140, and received little pushing. Asian parents might be a little more pushy, just as any new poor immigrants.</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>Indianparent:

Now, if the CA, FL, and TX experiences showed that it was Whites who were taking Asian’s seats, that would have been one thing. But it isn’t.

</p>

<p>It’s an utter fantasy to presume that HYPMS would suddenly shift 20% of their collective enrollment from URMs who may underperform on the SATs or ACTs to Asians who may underperform on the SATs or ACTs. Those seats would instead go to high-scoring applicants of all backgrounds. But, here’s the rub: Whites make up a disproportionate number of applicants and a disproportionate number of the rejections in any given year. It doesn’t take the progeny of a Tiger Mom to figure out that Whites would quickly fill up a disproportionate number of any newly available seats. I think you knew that nearly a thousand posts ago when you made this comment @#3962

Quote:
“I just don’t want it to get mixed up with this idea that whites are stealing the seats of Asians–something for which I think there is little evidence.” </p>

<p>There may or may not be evidence, but it is a political minefield that Asians would do best to stay out of. Nothing good can come out of that.

</p>

<p>You’re entitled to make a tactical retreat on this point, if you care to. But, the idea that your position is informed by anything other than what would put the most Asian kids into the most seats at Harvard is absurd.</p>

[Bay]

<p>IP doesn’t want to mess with the White man, cuz that’s where the power is. He wants to stick it to the URMs, who are dumb thieves, in IP’s mind.</p>

<p>P.S.
Its “funny” how he draws his battle lines based on race. Must be that “Asian perspective” I didn’t pick up on.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

And you call yourself a Tiger, IP?</p>

<p>Tiger parenting is waaay over-valued. Your kid’s achievement has little to do with your pushing, and he might need only 3 hours of schooling a day (i.e., smarter than you). Just ask sewhappy how much push she did, or ask mathmom.</p>

<p>I suspect that most if not all kids with a 2400/36 first try, all 5s on 14-18 APs and straight As have IQ over 140, and received little pushing. Asian parents might be a little more pushy, just as any new poor immigrants.

</p>

<p>What does that have to do with my disdain for long school hours?</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

It’s an utter fantasy to presume that HYPMS would suddenly shift 20% of their collective enrollment from URMs who may underperform on the SATs or ACTs to Asians who may underperform on the SATs or ACTs. Those seats would instead go to high-scoring applicants of all backgrounds. But, here’s the rub: Whites make up a disproportionate number of applicants and a disproportionate number of the rejections in any given year. It doesn’t take the progeny of a Tiger Mom to figure out that Whites would quickly fill up a disproportionate number of any newly available seats.

</p>

<p>John, why are you putting up a strawman and then knocking it down? Why are you putting words in my mouth that I never said? Are you a lawyer or something? The seats will go to high scoring Asians who have been pushed out by low scoring URMs because of AA. </p>

<p>

You’re entitled to make a tactical retreat on this point, if you care to. But, the idea that your position is informed by anything other than what would put the most Asian kids into the most seats at Harvard is absurd.

</p>

<p>Keep knocking down strawmen.</p>