" I’ve never even experienced long, grey winters, I’m assuming would advise not attending those universities?"
No, I wouldn’t say that at all. There are happy Californians, Floridians, etc., at both schools. Not everybody is bothered by the same things.
I am a graduate of Cornell (admittedly, a long time ago) have visited Dartmouth, and have lived in big cities (Boston and San Diego, as well as some smaller foreign capitals), small cities, villages, and rural areas. So perhaps I can offer some perspective.
I loved living in Ithaca. It is definitely not a big city, but there is always something interesting going on, and Cornell is big enough to be a city in its own right. But if you need the stimulus of a big city (excellent transit, lots of night life, and anonymity), you will find either Ithaca or Hanover too constricting. But Ithaca has a lot of the things I like: a great local food scene, coffeehouses, bookstores, beautiful nature, active recreation, lots of cultural events, lectures, and places to explore.
Ithaca does get snow, but it is not in the “snow belt,” which begins perhaps 30 miles out so north of Ithaca (the difference is profound).
Ithaca is isolated, or as we say, centrally isolated. Still, we would occasionally break away for a slice of pizza in Manhattan (figure 4-4.5 hour drive) or visit to any of the surrounding cities (Rochester, Syracuse, Binghamton, neither of which were as prosperous or interesting as Ithaca).
Ithaca is a gift place of you want to balance urban and rural. If you need the stimulus of a larger city, you would do well to look at schools in larger cities (Harvard, Tufts, BC, Brown, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, GWU, Northwestern, U of Chicago, U of Richmond, Emory, Vanderbilt, Wash U in SL, UCLA/USC, Rice, UT Austin, Berkeley, UW, any of which will give you more of an urban experience).
@FifthDegree Wow, thanks so much!
Hanover is one of the most beautiful little towns on the face of the earth. I was sorry when D graduated. My wife and I threaten to move there if D were ever to get a position at Dartmouth. JK (kind of), but it would take a lot to get me out of Berkeley, and Hanover might just be able to pull it off. If you need lots of dance clubs and 50 movie theaters to be happy, Dartmouth is not the place. But being isolated (distance wise) does not mean it is insular or that there is not a lot to do.
When the OP used the word “civilization” in post #14 he or she exhibited the attitude of lots of internationals when it comes to stereotyping the USA, that outside a few high profile cities we are a bunch of Luddites.
I run into this all the time in business, where people expected at meetings in NJ or Connecticut refuse to stay close to the meeting sites and opt for hotels in Manhattan, insist on flying to JFK and are hours late for meetings they request.
Don’t worry OP about location, worry more about where you can get accepted.
You will spend 95% of your time on campus.
Honestly, as a Cornell alum and NYC resident, I know far more people who find big cities depressing than college towns.
We have 12 nieces and both lived in NYC. My wife calls this Carrie Bradshaw Syndrome.
“When the OP used the word “civilization” in post #14 he or she exhibited the attitude of lots of internationals when it comes to stereotyping the USA, that outside a few high profile cities we are a bunch of Luddites.”
Well, I’m a native Midwesterner, and I would describe a campus like Grinnell as pretty darn remote from civilization. I still love the school, and I still recommend it, but civilization in the colloquial sense is far away. My guess is that plenty of people from Des Moines consider Grinnell to be in the boonies.
@hanna The use of the word civilized in that post implies, well more than implies, that Ithaca and Hanover are uncivilized. I would argue that both Ithaca and Hanover are more civilized than any city. Yes they are more rural than a city, but they are not actually rural.
If you want to attend a top college in a big international city, there are lots of other options for you: Harvard, MIT, Columbia, Penn, UChicago, Georgetown, etc.
I’m from New Jersey, so I had the same concerns when choosing schools.
I would consider schools in cities & suburbs if you want to be near civilization.
Most of your time will be spent on campus, that’s true. I don’t remember the specifics, but a large portion of NYU hasn’t even visited the Empire State Building. So, don’t be afraid to try something new!
@ScaredNJDad1 I’m from southern New Hampshire, not all that far Hanover, and your definition of “rural” must be quite narrow if it does not include Hanover.
Ithaca is a wonderful town by itself. It is the quintessential college town. It is routinely listed among the top five or ten great towns. It attracts the very best performers, shows and other venues-great student oriented town. Marvelous. it is an amazing place. You can find just about anything you’d like to do there even though it is not a city and there are not other big cities close by.
Just food for thought: since you have always lived in a big international city, maybe you’d like to try to something different. Cornell and Dartmouth would both offer you the quintessential American college experience. That is something that most people can only experience once in their lives.
@usualhopeful Hanover is a wealthy area, in fact the corridor between Woodstock VT and Hanover has some of the most expensive real estate in New England. So with family income twice the national average and close enough to twice the average for NH, Hanover is not rural.
If you want rural, visit some towns in West Virginia…Hanover, as well as Ithaca, are not rural towns.
@fuzzzzzzster, First, a couple of questions: Have you ever been to the United States or will you be able to visit before making your final choice? Have you already applied for September 2016 or will you apply next year?
Great American universities are like islands of academic stimulus, whether they’re located in cities, in college towns or in mostly rural environments. They attract innovative, creative thinkers, both faculty and students, and exist pretty much independently of their immediate surroundings. Although there are common threads that run throughout, each college has its own personality or culture. Some are sporty, some are social, some are outdoorsy, some are activist, some are artsy, some are political and so forth. If you were able to visit you would get a feeling for the nuances.
The point is that the university is in itself a buzzing, vibrant microcosm that transcends its surroundings. In your other thread you mention Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, London. You could compare city to city but you can’t compare city to university. You just don’t get this kind of self contained energy at universities in Hong Kong, Singapore or Dubai, and even in the UK, many of the top universities are not in London.
There is nothing about inherently “depressing” about Dartmouth or Cornell and plenty that is uplifting and energizing. As others have mentioned if you think you’d prefer an urban environment, then you have many other choices. If you’re worried about winter weather, then there are good choices in milder climates. But if you’re worried about the abstraction of being bored or under-stimulated or isolated, then you don’t understand the power and attraction of a large American university, wherever it is located.
My son only ever lived in mega-cities in the U.S. and in Asia – including one of those you mention. He always assumed he would attend an urban college but when he started visiting something about the insularity and nature-driven focus of rural America spoke to him, so much so that he chose Cornell for graduate school. Post-graduation, he is, of course, back in the mega-city, but he has never regretted attending rurally based colleges.
I haven’t been to Dartmouth, but I can tell you that the area is as @ScaredNJDad1 says both sophisticated and upscale. Ithaca is a lively small town, energized by thousands of students.
For my son, having access to profound natural beauty served as an antidote to the intense academic pressure of a rigorous college. For him getting out in nature in all of its four-seasoned wonder was uplifting and stimulating. You may feel otherwise, if you haven’t travelled in the United States, especially outside of large cities, it’s hard to imagine.
It’s also hard to imagine from afar what @blprof calls the “quintessential American college experience.” That is, to me, one of America’s greatest opportunities. Think about what you might like to do when you’re not in class – big social events, football games, fraternity parties, arts performances, outdoorsy activities, just hanging out with friends. . . The variety of non-academic experience is wide and deep. If your choices should ultimately include either Dartmouth or Cornell, you’d be very lucky indeed.
Taking the OP’s question at face value, I think the most important considerations concerning depressing atmospheres are weather and sunlight. It is certainly true that Dartmouth and Cornell have long, cold winters and the nights are long, so if you are more used to sunlight and warmth, a la Singapore or Dubai, then yes, some people might find a northern winter pretty glum. But it’s appreciably better than the atmosphere of London or Helsinki. So it really comes down to one’s own perspective.
As for urban vs. rural, I think it is important to realize that “civilization” is really just what you can walk to. It’s not like that people who go to college at Columbia go to Broadway to see a show or are eating dinner at momofuku. You really just need some movie theaters, noodle bars, coffee shops and grocery stores within walking distance. Ithaca and Hanover provide that in spades. The only thing you should really worry about are the colleges are set away from any town at all.
Cornell is really pretty in the summer, and that’s what got me so excited about it. But after a couple of months here, yeah it gets depressing as hell. Like really depressing what with the dark gothic buildings and clouds and no sunlight and prelims all the time and the long cold walk from class to home across the dreary bridge.
I agree with @spayurpets comments about weather and sunlight. Ithaca does have long winter nights, but the Cornell campus is particularly beautiful during the winter (especially after a fresh snowfall). My DD attends, and is so busy with friends from her hall, friends from her major, and friends from her sorority, that the weather and prelims haven’t gotten her down. Making an effort to make friends freshman year really has helped her enjoy her time at Cornell – and she is quite an introvert.
Also, I grew up as an expat in large international cities, but attended a liberal arts college in the northeastern US in a small college town. I absolutely loved experiencing the change of seasons, nature, and the beautiful architecture. Cornell could be a great change of pace for you.
Ithaca, NY is a college town. To me, it represents precisely what the American college experience is about. I was born and raised the NYC and am a proud Cornell alum. I never considered for a moment going to college in a city. To me, it just wasn’t college if it wasn’t a beautiful campus in a college town.
Funny story. A few years ago I was doing the college search thing with my daughter. When we were walking around Cornell, I said to my husband, “Gee, I don’t remember it being this rural.” When I was a student there it never occurred to me that I was in a rural area! The community is so vibrant, and there is so much to do that it can be overwhelming. And with Collegetown (the commercial area adjacent to campus) and downtown Ithaca, there’s no shortage of retail and restaurants. You should visit.