<p>Shrinkwrap, I believe that CC doesn’t count posts in Parent Cafe, which is where I generally post. I’ll admit that I haven’t been very active, though.</p>
<p>Cape May had segregated beaches in the 50s.</p>
<p>PizzaGirl, perhaps you mean “normal” as compared to today. To people who lived in the south, their part of the country was normal, and areas without segregation were not normal.</p>
<p>And you characterization of what life was like in the 60’s in the northeast is a bit idealistic. The recism wasn’t as blatant, but it still existed. When my parents bought their house in a suburb of Boston, their pastor toured the house with my mother (a white woman), and my father (a black man) never saw the house until after the closing at the courthouse. When he showed up to sign the papers, the couple tried to back out, saying the neighbors would never forgive them. The judge assured them that if they didn’t sign the papers they wouldn’t be selling to ANYONE for a long time, because he oversaw all closings in the town. Defacto segregation was the rule - that’s why they had desegregation busing in Boston and other cities, which prompted “white flight” where while families fled the cities to avoid desegregation. It was just one such suburb where my parents moved. </p>
<p>Racism still exists today, it’s just not as overt. Not as bad as the 60’s but still not “normal.”</p>
<p>I’m not being idealistic - there were plenty of Archie Bunkers in the urban northeast.
Archie Bunker wouldn’t have wanted his daughter to marry a black guy, and he might not be too pleased to have a black family move next door, but Archie Bunker didn’t think that blacks shouldn’t sit wherever they wanted in a restaurant or on a bus. I’m sorry, I think it was a whole other level of dehumanization going on, and I don’t feel like being politically correct and pretending that the south didn’t lag the north on this.</p>
<p>Marginally on topic. ( the Worlds Fair was in Queens…) …my parents were integrating [Addisleigh</a> Park, Historic Black Neighborhood in Queens, Gains Landmark Status - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/queens-neighborhood-gains-landmark-status/]Addisleigh”>Addisleigh Park, Historic Black Neighborhood in Queens, Gains Landmark Status - The New York Times), while getting letters from dad’s family about separate water fountains in Huntsville. </p>
<p>Okay, they moved in in the fifties, and a few blocks away, but it was still pretty cool…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/empowerment/18325/african_americans_and_civil_rights_in_pennsylvania/690952]Empowerment[/url”>http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/empowerment/18325/african_americans_and_civil_rights_in_pennsylvania/690952]Empowerment[/url</a>]</p>
<p>I recently got an oral history from two ninety year old women who were the first black family to integrate our neighborhood in the mid-1950s. The real estate agent tried to tell them that the neighborhood had a covenant, but they told the agent that covenants were outlawed in 1950 in NY, something I had not known. </p>
<p>While the worst forms of segregation obviously weren’t prevalent in the North, there was still plenty of bad behavior and de facto segregated schools. (In fact in many cities schools are more segregated now than ever before.) The first court victory to desegregate a northern school was in 1961 in New Rochelle, NY.</p>
<p>Right. That’s my point. The worst forms of segregation – the dehumanizing, subhuman can’t-sit-at-the-lunch-counter/at-the-front-of-the-bus/drink-from-the-fountain – weren’t prevalent in the North. And there’s a difference between de facto and de jure.</p>
<p>In 1959,the county next to mine, in southern Virginia, closed all public schools rather than integrate. There were no public schools for 5 years. The white kids went to the new private school, that was supported by tuition grants from the state of Virginia and tax credits from the county.Poor white kids received scholarships to attend.The others just didn’t go to school - for 5 years. In 1964, the Supreme Count declared the tuition grants unconstitutional, so they reopened the schools.</p>
<p>^Doesn’t Georgia still essentially have tuition grants?</p>
<p><<archie bunker="" wouldn’t="" have="" wanted="" his="" daughter="" to="" marry="" a="" black="" guy,="" and="" he="" might="" not="" be="" too="" pleased="" family="" move="" next="" door,="" but="" archie="" didn’t="" think="" that="" blacks="" shouldn’t="" sit="" wherever="" they="" in="" restaurant="" or="" on="" bus.="">></archie></p>
<p>How do you know that? One of the final straws with my father-in-law (now deceased) was seeing him look around McD’s to find a table on the opposite side from where a black family was sitting. And that was in the late 1990s in PA. Just because blacks COULD sit where they wanted doesn’t mean people LIKED it.</p>
<hr>
<p><<right. that’s="" my="" point.="" the="" worst="" forms="" of="" segregation="" …="" weren’t="" prevalent="" in="" north.="">></right.></p>
<p>NO ONE is arguing that point. What went on in the south in those decades was horrible and seems unthinkable to us TODAY, but as CTScoutmom commented - it was normal THEN. No, it wasn’t right, but it was what it was. </p>
<p>But as has been pointed out, your “normal part of the country” was in no way immune from bigotry, segregation, racism, etc.</p>
<p>Everyone knows and acknowledges that the north was not free of racism. But there is indeed a big difference between LEGAL Jim Crow and what generally went on in the north. Covenants, when legal, were equivalent. And let us not forget that exclusionary covenants also included Jews in some areas. I grew up in New Canaan, CT, which is next to Darien. When I was a kid, there were a small number of Jewish and black families in town. Darien had neither. The only black people who lived in Darien at that time were servants living in their employer’s houses. I don’t think it was legal at that stage, it was the “Gentlemen’s Agreement.”</p>
<p>In regard to amusement parks specifically, I found a very interesting 2004 article by University of Rochester researchers entitled “Integrated Leisure in Segregated Cities: Amusement Parks and Racial Conflict in the Post War North.” Just google the first few words and it should come up easily. Part of the “wristband” or pay to enter (as opposed to just letting anyone in for free and then be able just buy tickets) seemed to be a way to control access. Disney and such movement away from “urban” parks also limited access and was initially geared to white suburbanites with discretionary income. Also, some interesting notes about whites being nostalgic about the old urban parks. Palisades,Coney Island ,Glen Echo and others are mentioned. It’s 12 pages but I found it very interesting.</p>
<p>Mathmom, the tuition grants, in conjunction with closing the schools, were found unconstitutional in that the combination violated the equal protection clause.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many (white) southerners did not find segregation acceptable or “normal” but abhorrent and shameful. Some early activists ended up exiles in the North because of fears for the safety of their family. This does not mean they necessarily rejected everything to do with their birthplace and culture. “The South” is not a homogeneous group of people.</p>
<p>The post WWI era that gave rise to the Northern migration of rural Southern Blacks also revitalized the KKK.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[The</a> Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s . Fatal Flood . WGBH American Experience | PBS](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/flood-klan/]The”>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/flood-klan/)</p>
<p>That is a huge number of Klan members since Pa. had approximately 9 million people in the 1920-30s. That’s 1 out of 45 who was an active KKK member. So, in the 1950s and 1960s, the Pa. whites over the age of 18 were either raised in that era and/or by someone of that era.</p>
<p>Here is a story by a young man about the 1960s in New Jersey as it relates to and explains riot factors in the Northeast.
[Riot</a> and Reunion: Forty Years Later | The Nation](<a href=“http://www.thenation.com/article/riot-and-reunion-forty-years-later]Riot”>http://www.thenation.com/article/riot-and-reunion-forty-years-later)</p>
<p>I realize the thread has taken on an altogether different topic, but personally, I don’t think it’s reasonable for a 3-4 year old and/or 5 year old to understand "we went to an amusement park that was a much better value just a few weeks/ months ago. Not if there are going to be hordes of kids having fun on rides in plain sight of them. In fact, if anything, if they enjoyed the experience, they are even more likely to regret missing out. </p>
<p>This seems to be a case of principle, not affordability, so IMO either leave them home with a sitter or allow room in the budget for a few rides. There is no reason it has to be all or nothing, and at that age, the kids are probably too small to go on all the rides, in any case. Part of the fun of being a parent is to look at life through the eyes of a child sometimes.</p>
<p>My husband came from a very wealthy and very successful (his father) family. His parents went on 3 vacations per year (or more) without kids. My husband went on two vacations in his childhood: the Bahamas and Cap Ferrat. He never went to Disneyland or spent time just being with his family. I didn’t come from money and I remember so clearly fighting for everything and once I got it there were so many strings attached that it wasn’t fun.</p>
<p>When we married, be it by instinct or my influence, our kids went everywhere…Hawaii, Disneyland, Europe, New York…They (and we) have the memories to share. Silly, serious…or just plain memories,</p>