<p>sevmom - Absolutely. Some kids do better on the SAT, others on the ACT. You see both kinds here in these forums.</p>
<p>I understand what you mean by “SAT territory.” Nobody seems to take the ACT around here, either.</p>
<p>sevmom - Here’s what I remember hearing:</p>
<p>The ACT is a bit more about mastery of different subject areas, reflecting your knowledge of those areas. So that requires lots of study, or well-taught courses with good content that the student has worked at. Disclaimer: This is only based on what I’ve read here.</p>
<p>But the SAT is more about aptitude, general intelligence (not content); you just need to answer accurately at a reasonable rate. SAT math (for example) is barely high school level, and the reading/writing is just general verbal ability that would apply for all fields; you can build that up from a lifetime of reading/writing.</p>
<p>Of course, both could be improved with study, but it makes sense that different students might fare better “out of the gate” on the different tests. So you get three different ways to show your stuff - core ability, knowledge of course content, or the effects of a heavy test-specific study program.</p>
<p>Frankly, to me the ACT sounds like the scarier test by far. When I was a kid, I didn’t give the best effort to all subject areas, so the ACT probably would have exposed missing knowledge.</p>
<p>CCSiteObsessed - If there’s still time, you should consider having your daughter take the SAT. The colleges will take either one.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s worthwhile to have your kid try to take the SAT if there’s still time. At our kids’ HS, they urged all kids to take both. Some scored MUCH better on one than the other, while other kiddos got the same score on both. My D was ill while taking the ACT, so she canceled the score as soon as she got home & never re-took the exam. She scored decently the only time she took the SAT so didn’t retake. She started at CC & applied to transfer after her 1st semester there & was admitted as a transfer to begin after her 3rd semester at selective private U (tho with no merit award 
).
Good luck–hope she does better on her SAT if she is willing to try it. The REAL SAT has some sample tests in it & is what our kiddos used to prepare & get a sense of the timing.</p>
<p>Students who are strong, fast readers, but not the best math students seem to score higher on the ACT as oppossed to the SAT, at our school at least.</p>
<p>^^The ACT math is primarily Algebra and Geometry…only a couple “trig” questions according to my kids.</p>
<p>I tiptoed back here today, wondering “oops, did I go overboard?” and I am glad that others can accept what I had to say. </p>
<p>The whole college application process is just too intense and prolonged. We can be charmed to learn that Pete Seegar flunked out of Harvard or that Bill Gates did fine without finishing a degree – but, on daily basis, the message our teens hear is “you could be better! (And you had better get on that, NOW!)” We (myself included) say that sort of thing even as we adults juggle commitments and expenses and daily health choices, knowing we could do better but also feeling really stressed getting along as well as we do. </p>
<p>My heart goes out to the poor tester. Please assure her that practically no one over the age of 20 takes standardized tests. When she earns her PhD, it will be with a carefully written thesis and an oral defense instead of a number Two pencil. </p>
<p>And let’s all redefine what “A Great Student” really is.</p>
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<p>You never can tell on CC - but I agree with others; great post :)</p>
<p>You did not go overboard.</p>
<p>Thanks for all responses, and thank you for sharing your stories.
I think my DS can EA some R/M/S schools to find where his level is, and adjust RD list accordingly.
Olymom-- I agree with you that kids need encouragement just like everyone does, and the highest ranked schools may not be the schools best fit them. This makes college selection for these “a little short of "perfect” kids is not easy. This is why I came to CC to find more info to help him.
In Junior and Senior year, kids often under more or less pressures, I can’t remember when is the last time I blamed him. Every time I have to make sure he is in good mood before I say something. Thinking about he is going to leave me after a year, I start crying (but if he was still with me, which would be a real problem)
CCsite— there are a lot of schools are SAT/ACT optional, but there are no schools are GPA optional, so your case is much better than mine.</p>
<p>Truthfully, I think " a little short of perfect" describes everyone- even the most accomplished individual! I tell my guys "We’re not looking for perfect. We’re looking for ‘worthwhile’. " </p>
<p>The whole college pursuit racket is an introduction to “how to” or “how not to” live life.</p>
<p>Olymom - good post. (although some of those 4.0 kids are actually great kids:).)</p>
<p>I walk a fine line here with a HS soph (boy) who is very bright and capable but working on the maturity issues. Want him to do well and not fall on the slippery slope of slackerdom (I’ve seen a few others go there), but not at the price of being overwhelmed or worse. It’s a whole balance thing. He attends a very selective magnet school where he is not one of the top achievers, which is fine by me. The colleges he is interested in are not the HYPS types, they are schools for the under 4.0 crowd. Again, fine by me.</p>
<p>CcsiteObsessed–I know where you are coming from. I have both sides of the coin. DS1 is that top grades/top SAT kid. DS2 works extremely hard and gets good grades (because of the hard work) but totally bombs most assessment tests. He’s a HS freshman so we’ll see what this brings. I’m planning on getting him help with test taking, but I really think I will be looking at those test optional schools for him in three years. </p>
<p>Embrace the kids for who they are! You will both be happy and I’m convinced they will find the schools that will fit their needs and help them be successful!</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>There may be a few, but its hard to figure out who they are. If anything, its more likely that you’ll find one that allows extracurricular plus high SAT to compensate for lower grades. As opposed to simply having the SAT compensate. I had one child in that situation who was admitted to a pretty selective school over a group of classmate who had higher averages. What they didn’t have was the span of extracurricular achievement that included sports, music, and performing. </p>
<p>I don’t have the data formally, but I’ve noticed looking at Naviance that there are quite a few schools (most are not “top” colleges) that show an acceptance pattern that implies a “minimum grade cutoff”, but not very many that show a pattern that has a minimum SAT cutoff. In theory, you might expect to see the dividing line between acceptance and rejection slope downward. In practice, what I think I see is that schools are more reluctant to accept the high scoring kid with the lower grades than they are to accept the high gpa kid with the more “normal” scores.</p>
<p>Not an uplifting message for you, but I would get on your school’s naviance site and start to go one by one through some schools you are interested in. Pick out a good group of likely admits for him, and then go for some reaches.</p>
<p>^I think dadx is correct, however the good news is that sometimes that “minimum GPA cutoff” is lower than you would expect.</p>
<p>In general though you can’t expect a high SAT alone to cancel out low(ish) grades. You have to bring something else to the table.</p>
<p>I agree that if you have high test scores but not top grades you will have to have something else. My S has a 3.6 GPA… A LOT of B+'s. and high test scores. He is an Eagle Scout with tons of leadership, done some unusual EC’s, such as internships with the National Parks, search and rescue volunteer, rescue scuba diver, a semester at a prestigious boarding school on a rural organic farm, and he has over 1200 hrs Community Service. He wants a small LAC, so this is advantageous for him as they all view hollistically, and being a boy will help. He is interviewing at every school, as he is a strong interviewer. He will have fantastic LOR’s. After this we will see where the chips fall. He has 3 reaches and the rest are low matches, and safeties. He would be thrilled to go to any of them.</p>
<p>But I have a feeling his EC’s will help him a little to balance out that GPA. I don’t think there is any way they can think he is lazy. Not as focused on academics, yes, and they may decide they would rather have the A student, as college is an academic place. He is a terrific kid, and I have always accepted him as he is, and I’m sure he will end up where is is meant to be.</p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind is that not all GPAs are equivalent, as different high schools grade differently. I think someone posted upthread that the OP’s S was in the Top 10%, even though his grades weren’t “high”, so presumably he has a lot of weighted classes and class rank is done using weighted GPA. A student in the Top 10% with a rigorous schedule and high SAT scores will look good to lots of great colleges, just not the absolute tippy top most selective ones. </p>
<p>It is important to look at Naviance and other scattergrams available on the Internet to see the patterns for individual colleges. EA and/or ED can also be helpful for this type of student. Also consider “admissions bargains” schools, i.e., women’s colleges for women students, former women’s colleges trying to achieve gender balance for men students, LACs for Asians, less desirable geographic locations, …</p>
<p>I have no idea if there’s any real correlation but I have one data point on a high SAT/middlin’ grades kid. DS#2 applied to many schools and in the end was not admitted to any in-state publics. He did, however, get into several higher-ranked OOS publics. He also did well in LAC admissions (CTCL-caliber schools).</p>
<p>I know our larger in-state publics are very numbers-driven–if the applicant doesn’t meet the minimum GPA/SAT requirements, they don’t even look at the rest of the application. I have a feeling the OOS publics can take other things into consideration since they know they’ll be getting more $$s.</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing, Olymon! your post fits my Son well. His poor presentation skill, very bad handwriting and his passion for his own academic interest drag his grade down.</p>
<p>Olymom, I thought your post was so awesome, I printed it out and put it in the folder I am starting for my 15 year old as we start to look ahead to the PSAT after a not-so-great sophomore year.</p>
<p>Olymom makes some great points, but I would point out that colleges generally prize high GPA over high scores because their experience is that those with high GPA’s perform better academically in college. The high scoring, middling GPA student may very well retain in college whatever habits or traits held down his performance in high school. I’m the mom of a boy who kept his semi-slacker ways all the way through college (and beyond). If a very selective college had accepted him on the basis of his scores, he would have been in way over his head. I think it’s best to assume that a student with mediocre grades belongs at a school with his GPA-peers. If he suddenly matures and gets his act together, he’ll rise to the top there and be a star.</p>