Keep in mind that small LACS with an emphasis on athletic teams/recruits will have more ED applicants. That does skew the ED pool a lot
Why would a student care about yield? It makes no sense to me. If a student likes a school only that student’s opinion of the school matters.
As far as recruited athletes go I think it does change the analysis. I will use ESTIMATES to show why it matters.
Haverford has roughly 1200 students and roughly 40% are athletes. That means roughly 480 students are athletes. Most are recruited. Each class has approximately 120 athletes and the vast majority of athletes apply ED. If 350 students apply ED and 50% are accepted that means that out of 175 accepted students a VERY LARGE percentage of them are athletes. While athletes do have many choices most of them have committed to an ED school and been offered support in the admissions process.
While most NESCAC (and other competitive LAC) athletes are competitive for admissions at their school without coach support they face the same long odds as other applicants. Sports offer some degree of certainty wrt admissions that does change the numbers for other students.
I agree. Colleges care about yield a great deal since they want to properly size incoming classes. Students don’t care.
@Incoming406 ’ That is true but it doesn’t change the analysis. Athletes often have many choices. High yield is high yield no matter the reason’
Of course it changes the analysis and directly impacts yield. At ED, the yield rate is 99%, which factors into the overall yield rate. If a school admits more students ED, then overall yield rate will rise. A school that recruits athletes more heavily at ED (like Bates vs Macalaster) will have an advantage, Look at your the numbers. 25% of all Bates admission offers went out at ED, vs only 5% for Macalaster. That has a huge impact on yield. And a big part of the reason that Bates has more ED applicants and admits, is that there are a lot more recruited athletes there. And most of the NESCACs are looking for athletic commitments at ED
MY D attends W&M and the comp sci and applied math departments are very strong. She has a number of friends from TJ Science Magnet HS in Northern VA who are quite happy and challenged there.
The student body is just what you describe in your post: “I think what will resonate best with Son is a school where students who enjoy discussion in class so much that it spills over into discussions in the dorms; preferably students who are down-to-earth, and just nice people, with a big enough percentage of people not there to party nor attend big sporting events.”
It is slightly easier for a boy than a girl to be admitted. I think you son would be very happy there, and you would be within in your price range.
@VAOptimist - yes!! We are adding William and Mary to the list!
Thanks to all who commented; we checked out lots of additional schools, and decided to stop obsessing about match vs reach, and focus on fit. This stable part of his list has been the same, and all but one of these apps are done, wohoo!
Reach: Haverford, Brandeis
Match: Conn College
Safety: Juniata, Wheaton(MA), GMU (in state safety, though hoping for Honors College)
Added Beloit and Allegheny as safeties. Thinking Beloit especially might be a contender with Juniata for fit.
We are likely adding Carleton and Macalaster - we are visiting with scheduled interviews, in December (brr). I will make sure we peek in at St Olaf’s while we’re there.
Adding: W&M (yay, since in-State)
Bates
Hamilton
(decided H really still is a better “fit” than Lafayette, or Dickinson or F&M or any of the Ohio schools we considered - but if it either Bates or Hamilton falls off list due to essay-writing burnout, ok).
And yes, pressure is now off because son is accepted to Juniata with $25K in merit! Only a few more apps to finish, and then just waiting to find out if he has choices to go back and visit in the spring to find his “fit”.
I have to second above poster about W&M. I have a freshman daughter there and I think he sounds like a great fit there both academically and socially. She loves it - it’s not for everyone, but she is also a non-partier, has zero interest in sports (she says nobody there is into sports), loves her small classes and it so far has not been competitive. She has also really enjoyed her professors. They have several required seminar classes all of which have 15-25 kids in each class. She has been busy there with academics. It’s not a place to go for people who genuinely don’t love to learn, but it sounds like your son does. They’ve done a great job at making it a home for her. It really feels way more like a small private LAC than a public school. It’s so nice to have that kind of experience and education for a (relatively) inexpensive cost. Glad you have it on your list. One of my son’s (he’s a HS senior) friends just got accepted ED. His stats were lower than your sons slightly. Definitely an advantage in admissions for males. I just looked it up and males have a 10% higher admission rate. Good luck!
@CoyoteMom , did you end up visiting Macalester and Carleton? Any thoughts?
@“apathetic panda” - Yes! We did visit both Macalaster and Carleton back in December.
We stopped at Mac first - the info session was well done (there were just 2 students, so session moved into a cozy conference room with all of us around one table); emphasis was clearly placed on international student body and social justice, plus great location in Twin Cities for internships.
Took a well done tour with a music major; camps is flat and compact. I remember all the flags in dining hall, and the only students we saw on campus were ladies basketball team members at the gym. Despite getting great food at three restaurants within a block or so of campus (Afghan, Mediterranean, and great breakfast joint) something just didn’t click. We didn’t get the sense of Mac as a good place for science (even though I think that’s true), and we didn’t get any of the “nerdy/quirky” vibe CoyoteSon is looking for. Finally, he just didn’t connect with the AdCom who interviewed him, probably because he had already decided the school wasn’t right for him.
Off the list. (although had we been hooked up with a science major, or visited while students were there, might have been a different story, and certainly Mac is a great school just brimming with opportunities!)
Carleton is located in Northfield, about 45-minute ride south from St Paul. We took a bus for $15 one way, each - so easy transportation right from the airport to middle of campus. (Bus stops at St Olaf too). Northfield has a few restaurants and shops - great bakery! But definitely small town compared to Mac’s access to St Paul.
The campus is spread out over some rolling hills with a picturesque park-like little stream/lake with an island - just behind the academic buildings, on the way to the gym, and perhaps upperclassmen housing.
The Admissions office was very welcoming - the tour guide was great - she was an American Studies major, but spent a lot of time talking up the Geology class she took to fulfill her Science requirement - and she clearly learned a lot and enjoyed the rigor of the class and the project she did.
Loved hearing about the little house that is open 24/7 for students to make cookies! And our favorite story was how the Astronomy tower got dressed up to be R2D2 for a day as a senior prank. So definitely met the nerdy/quirky vibe - and the AdCom turned out to be a fellow strategy board game aficionado - so CoyoteSon naturally really loved this big reach school. On the list - and we’re waiting for March 31 (though I’ve read how others with even better stats have been waitlisted, so not holding our breath). Carleton is amazing!
We drove through St Olaf's (never under consideration - too musical for my Son, and even though I think he would enjoy the 2 required religion classes, he objects to the requirement.) That said - I liked this campus, also spread over some lovely rolling hills - the campus was beautiful - lots of gray stone buildings that reminded me of Hogwarts.
Just thought to add one more thing - we took the trip primarily to see Macalaster, because I was trying to add a “match” to round out his list - and wound up with no match, but an extra high reach school with Carleton.
I love the advice given here on cc to spend time visiting safeties and matches, because you may find the big reaches are indeed very attractive, but potentially unattainable.
Oh well – I’ve enjoyed the college visit journey with CoyoteSon – and we also saw the wonderful Minn-St Paul Science Museum while we were there, and got our only taste of snow, as winter has been unseasonably mild in VA this year!
@CoyoteMom - We accidentally discovered one excellent way to make safeties/matches more alluring. Visit a school or two where the bar is definitely way too low for your kid. We didn’t set it up that way … we were just exploring a broad range … but when we stumbled across one school that looked good on paper but which failed to impress my kid in every possible way (guides, facilities, adcomm, evidence of student work, etc.) it automatically made a bunch of other potential safeties and matches shine by comparison.
@CoyoteMom: I’m not surprised you feel in love with Carleton – our daughter is a freshman there, intending to major in Biology. She is tremendously happy, and at times she feels the academic stress, but is doing very well. We never even looked at Macalester in our college search, and last year she applied RD to every college on her list…
I suspect there will be an even larger number of disappointed Carleton applicants this year due to this year’s historically largest-ever freshman class. Carleton aimed for a 2016 freshman class of 520 and had 573 enroll, with a yield rate of 40%. Consequently, I suspect admissions will aim for a smaller-than-average-sized freshman class for 2017 by making fewer offers of admission.
And yes, the cookies at Dacie Moses’ house are the best. Dacie welcomed Carleton students into her house with her open-door smiles for years – offering cookies, coffee and continual games of cribbage --until she died in 1981 (at/near the age of 98) and left the house to the college. I try to bake a batch of our family’s Monster Cookies for students at Dacie’s whenever we visit Northfield. They hold a Sunday brunch at the house as well.
Best of luck to CoyoteSon in his college search. If accepted at Carleton, he should grab hold of the opportunity.
@CoyoteMom, thanks - I just saw your post today for some reason!
I thought I’d update this thread, because I got wonderful advice from so many of you! Here’s the final list with results - he applied to 12 schools in all. Thanks to your suggestions, we strongly considered but never added any of the Ohio schools; also actually visited Lafayette, Dickinson, F&M, and Macalester before deciding not to apply. (drove through St Olaf’s, but too musical to ever be seriously considered).
Just a reminder: (unhooked white male from Northern Virginia, looking for LACs with science/nerdy/intellectually curious vibe, preferably no frats, and not too artsy/sporty; 31 ACT/3.89 GPA/ordinary ECs, service)
Six thru Early Action, and six Regular Decision:
Early Action:
Juniata (in w/merit)
Beloit (in w/merit)
Wheaton College MA (w/merit)
Allegheny (in w/merit)
University of Vermont Honors College (w/merit)
George Mason Univ Honors College (in-State)
Regular Decision:
Carleton (in)
Brandeis (in)
Connecticut College (in w/merit)
Hamilton (wait listed)
William and Mary (wait listed)
Haverford (rejected)
Whew! So he was accepted at 9 colleges, waitlisted at 2, and only rejected at 1. Yay for great advice here on CC, because you helped me craft this list with no need for any consultant!
And OMG - he got accepted at Carleton!!! That said, we visited over winter break - so he wants to visit with students, attend a couple classes and stay overnight to evaluate the “fit” - (and yes, I’m quietly rooting for Carleton, because I do think it’s a good fit; despite searching for merit, we have only 1 kid, and we can afford Carleton - Wow! Trying to share my excitement here so I don’t put undue pressure on son based on my prestige bias).
We have spring break coming up, so he decided to visit ConnCollege and Wheaton College and Carleton for overnights and classes, and if applicable, accepted student days. I agree with all those up thread who think ConnCollege is probably not the right vibe - but this way my son will see the students and decide for himself.
My son had been keeping his preferences close to his vest before the last acceptance news was in, but it only took him about 1-2 minutes to whittle the list to 5 choices: Beloit (my #2 for “fit”), Juniata, and the three above. I’m a little sad about Brandeis and UVM (especially with the late news that he made the Honors College), but he thinks they are too big.
Am really very grateful for the 2 wait lists and rejection, which help to narrow the list! After visiting Haverford, son thought it was a good match intellectually, but he didn’t really feel like he fit in - when he found out about the rejection, his reaction was, “Good, I didn’t want to go here!”
Thanks again for all your help. I’ll post another update once he has decided.
Congrats on your son’s success! I love Carleton and am rooting for it, too, with you! <:-P
Great idea to visit all the contenders. Even if Conn College is not the right fit, SEEING that will help clarify how the others may be a better fit.
Great results and a great thread!
Congrats!
Congrats! Carleton is great, but I wanted say so is Beloit. DS decision came down to Grinnell and Beloit (accepted to Hamilton and wait-listed at Haverford). I would describe him as a lot like your son. He started an applicaton to Carleton, but I couldn’t get him to finish it (might have been different if we had been able to visit).
Out of 9 acceptances (8 LACs), mainly maches and safeties he had the hardest time letting go of Beloit, he really enjoyed the community. In the end he choose Grinnell, but I don’t think he could have made a bad choice. It would be hard to turn Carleton down, but Beloit is great too.
Congratulations! Thanks for posting the results and, wow, Carleton! 
I agree that the overnight with students present will make a big difference.
Wow. @CoyoteMom!! Congtulations to CoyoteSon!!
As you know from the 3.0-3.4 Thread, my S17 will be at St Olaf, (great fit for him - very music-y kid), but he has 3 great friends going to Carleton, All very smart, but all athletes too. Because of that - all were ED. That being said, your S won’t meet a brighter, more hard-working group of scholar athletes than he’ll find at Carleton! Their Utimate Frisbee team is tops.
CoyoteSon sounds a lot like my S16, who didn’t make it to Carleton, but he loved his overnight, in the fall of Sr yr, before he applied. We live close so it was easy to visit. We ended up at his number two choice, Grinnell, which has been a great fit for him, and very similar to Carleton. He alao was accepted to Beloit, who kept upping their offer, so it was hard to pass up. Also, probably best for us, re: the Carleton rejection, as Grinnell provides more merit aid.
Which weekend will you be visiting Northfield? Glad you had a chance to visit, already. We love the town, and it is great that Minneapolis/St Paul is only 45 mins north, for access to big city things. We’ll be at St Olaf on April 8, for our visit. We just want S17 to be absolutely sure before we put down the deposit. The two schools are less than 2 miles apart, and there is a shuttle back and forth. The schools are quite different, as you know, and share a friendly rivalry. They also share dining hall privileges, and the Carleton kids often come to St O for dinner on Friday evenings, as the food is better! (So I am told.) And Olaf kids go to Carleton for the warm cookies (and parties, to be honest, since St O is a dry campus,)
Congratulations once again for a wonderful list that you and CoyoteSon put together, and for all of his terrific results!