<p>Mamalion…what’s wrong with the state schools? Why would you avoid them? I’m interested? That seems a more viable financial option, but I think we will have some options. </p>
<p>Tell me! Inquiring minds want to know why you believe this, as an insider.</p>
<p>Momfromme: We define “frugal” in most ways, but I do have to hire out the yardwork, due to some limitations I have now after some surgeries and my husband’s allergies. So while I’d love to save that money too, sometimes, you just can’t do it.</p>
<p>If I were much younger, as I expect many parents are, of the first college-bound child in the family - it would be different.</p>
<p>We each have our reasons and some of them are legitimate to us, even if someone else thinks it is an area we could cut. I do drive a 10 year old van that I purchased cash from an old man who drove it once to Florida, though ! ;)</p>
<p>Can someone tell me how to quote here? Neither hitting “Reply” next to the post to which I am responding nor “Post quick reply” at the bottom will allow me to quote the person I would like to address? How do I do that here?</p>
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Put this in your reply:</p>
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It will look like this when you post it:</p>
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<p>You will have to cut and paste the part you want quoted.</p>
<p>All of the formatting options are listed here: [College</a> Confidential - BB Code List](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/misc.php?do=bbcode]College”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/misc.php?do=bbcode)</p>
<p>There is wide variability in how much instructors and teachers work and make. I have friends who are tenured full professors at different Us. One makes over $100,000 annually at state flagship U and has a pension he will receive if he ever retires but has been at his job since the 60s and has co-authored many math and science texts and curricula that are used worldwide. He does travel extensively, making presentations and lives very modestly. He easily works over 80 hours/week and was bringing work for his editor to read while she was hospitalized! Another is an econ prof at a private U and earns a lot less but she doesn’t drive herself nearly the way the other prof does. Her private U has much lower caps on salaries, as it is a very small school with limited resources. She has gone on one sabbatical and is planning another. The public school prof has never taken a sabbatical in his decades of work. Our neighbor is also an econ prof at public flagship U; he also earns over $100K and has taken a sabbatical, does entertain in connection with work at his home & does seem to travel a lot and have long hours.</p>
<p>While we know one or two non-serious profs who meet their students at a bar, that is not the norm. The faculty we know work 8-10 hour days and at least half days on the weekend. Anyone who wants to progress needs to work that much. Similarly, I am an adjunct and considered part time, yet to do my job well, I work 40 hour week.</p>
<p>While we know one or two non-serious profs who meet their students at a bar, that is not the norm. The faculty we know work 8-10 hour days and at least half days on the weekend. Anyone who wants to progress needs to work that much. Similarly, I am an adjunct and considered part time, yet to do my job well, I work 40 hour week.</p>
<p>The fact that non-experts in the field are not interested in what scholars have to say does not mean that what scholats do, in research and writing, is not work.</p>
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<p>Let’s see if I’ve got it!</p>
<p>Yay! Thanks</p>
<p>TranquilMind,</p>
<p>I’ve worked at state schools in three states and received my master’s from a state school (non-flagship) in a 4th state. I have been asked to apply to good private universities and opted to stay with public education because I have commitments to American democracy that are best met in public universities. That said, I don’t think public higher education is healthy.</p>
<p>In the past state schools were more than decent. They reflected a commitment from the state to providing an education equivalent to a private college, they arose from or emulated the land grant colleges formed by states without colleges in the late 19th century, and they were a great source of pride. Without getting into the politics, which do vary state to state, government has decided to withdraw from funding state schools. This effects curriculum, faculty support, libraries, physical plant, etc. Here is a quick and dirty list: (1) I just came from a luncheon where faculty were frustrated by the lack of support for their teaching. Professors teach classes of 450 without a TA, for example. This means they can’t assign writing and can only give multiple choice tests that don’t prepare students for writing or speaking on the job or in graduate school. This would not be a problem if there were a bunch of 25 student classes to take up the slack, but there aren’t. (2) We are overcrowded with limited gathering places for undergraduates to converse and develop intellectual companions. Classes are sprinkled all around campus so that majors often don’t have places to meet. Classrooms are over-enrolled (30 students in a classroom built for 24). (3) Majors and enrollments are not balanced. This means we might accept 8 pharmacy students for 2 slots or have a backup on important classes/labs so that students can’t get into required classes and take longer to graduate. </p>
<p>I don’t think most state schools are bad. I don’t think most high schools are bad. I do think that state higher education is on a downward trajectory, becoming an extension of public high school and not a leap into excellence. Private colleges are not without problems, but there are clear differences between good private schools and even good state schools. I suggest that parents do a lot of checking on 4 and 6 year graduation rates at any school they consider with their children.</p>
<p>My husband (research scientist) depends on grants for his research budget and half his salary. He works from 7 am to - 9 pm M-Th, 7 am - 7 pm on Friday, and puts in at least a half day on both Saturday and Sunday. Lunch is usually consumed while attending a seminar, which means he’s pretty much working 76 hours a week. He’s reading grants, writing grants, keeping up with journals, correcting homework, supervising students in the lab, and occassionally doing his own research. He even reads journals at the gym. There’s a reason why neither kid is going into academics. They don’t want to work that hard. And given that he does is cancer research I think we can agree that the work he does is pretty important.</p>
<p>I’ve got no dog to fight in the State School argument. NY doesn’t have a flagship school. The SUNYs are okay, but hard to get excited about. I was happy to fund other choices.</p>
<p>For anyone who believes that faculty are well-paid at most institutions, please check the following table from Mississippi State for salary averages across different ranks.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ir.msstate.edu/sug12_13.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ir.msstate.edu/sug12_13.pdf</a></p>
<p>At Miss State, the mean salary for a full professor of biology is 91, 000. That’s after at least a decade or more after the Ph.D.</p>
<p>And right, faculty really don’t work…the typical right wing meme about faculty. Geez. </p>
<p>It’s funny because my buddies who are oral surgeons, business owners and salesman who make SIGNIFICANTLY more than me (I teach in the humanities) would always ask me to play golf on a Friday. But I had to decline, because I was in the classroom in the morning, office hours for students in the early afternoon, grading student papers in the mid afternoon and then finishing up for that 3 pm faculty meeting.</p>
<p>I don’t have TAs–I teach about 80-100 students a semester. And for our lower level courses, when I sometimes teach 2 of these, we have a mandated 6 writing assignments per semester. There are times when I am reading close to 1000 pages of student work a term in only 2 of my 3 classes. I took on two undergraduate honors theses this year, and mentored those students and met with them every week, reading drafts, etc.</p>
<p>I’ve been teaching for 20 years and my salary is below 70K. I’ve published in the top 3 journals in my field, and I have won a couple of teaching awards–one done by student vote, another done by my colleagues. I sit on committees that approve new courses, new programs, new textbooks and changes to our department’s curriculum. I sit on committees to nominate students for prestigious scholarships like the Rhodes. as well as a department committee that reads essays for local scholarships. I write recommendations for students. We hired a couple of new facutly, and I was on the committee to hire those people–we had over a 100 applications. I act as an unofficial ‘counselor’ to students who are struggling both academically and emotionally. I meet not only with my students, but the admissions office asks me to meet with prospective students. </p>
<p>I’m not unusual. Most of my colleges are doing this kind of stuf as well.</p>
<p>‘typical right wing meme about faculty’</p>
<p>That’s quite a broad brush you’re using.</p>
<p>My DH is a low-level administrator at a highly ranked regional public. He assists with research and is often asked why he doesn’t pursue a faculty position, to which he always replies: “Because I have 0 interest in working that hard.” He works 8-5, NEVER takes a break, and usually ends up working a little on the weekends with no extra compensation. The point is that all the Profs in their program are working a LOT more than he is, and he’s working roughly 45+ hours/week. </p>
<p>The president at their university recently got his hand slapped by the governor in our state for publically advocating for a cost of living raise for the faculty in spite of the wage-increase freeze that has been in place for a few years. He responded to the hand slapping by sending a somewhat terse letter to the Gov. which pointed out that a large percentage of the faculty as his u were making LESS than the local high school faculty. </p>
<p>Faculty salaries in our state are published periodically on lbloom.net, so I looked. Only a handful (literally 5 or 6) of faculty are making six figures (computer science and engineering profs). Some of the profs are earning salaries in low-mid 50s, but I’d say the average for the full professors is only mid-high 60s.</p>
<p>My father retired 5 years ago, full professor, making $52k. His position was eliminated and replaced with part-timers. The highest paid faculty member was a recruited “Professor of Diversity Studies,” $170,000 and only had to teach one class, but oversaw the implementation of the diversity requirements in the curriculum. Part of his negotiated package was immediate tenure, similar to the deal that many other administrators get. It is not the day-to-day teachers who have ballooned the cost of higher education.</p>
<p>Anyway, back on topic, one of the problems with financial aid is that it considers only averages, so that $100,000 income in Kokomo is considered the same as in Walnut Creek. A $100,000 pile of cash is considered the same as a 1/12 share of of a $1.2M book value piece of desert real estate. The sibling who needs braces/PT/chemo (we’ve had all 3) or the multiple extended periods of unemployment don’t count at all.</p>
<p>Like most here, we had the budget, the savings plan, all the recommended things for having a warchest available when the kids turn 18. What we didn’t have was luck, maybe the most important ingredient.</p>
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<p>Agree with mamalion that your mileages might very for both private colleges and public colleges. Do lots of research on all colleges that you are interested in both private and public. To check out their graduation rates, search for the common data set which has a lot of info.</p>