<p>I could never, ever, ever be a vegan. I think that vegetarianism might be better for the planet, though I’m sure we’d screw up mass-producing vegetables too like we already do with corn. I’m pretty comfortable with my current diet which includes meat or fish most days, but not in huge quantities - my plate is probably 1/4 meat, 3/8 cooked vegetable, 3/4 raw vegetable, very little in the way of grains except at breakfast. A lot of fake meats are really high in salt and the last time I went on a tofu binge it completely screwed up my gut. Two years later it’s still not optimal.</p>
<p>Lol ZM- and I could have written your first paragraph. Meat never appealed to me. I do miss honey baked ham every once in a great while though. </p>
<p>I couldn’t be vegan either. I like cheese too much, even though it makes me sick now. I’ve tried alternatives to milk (almond, soy, etc) and they just don’t taste that good to me.</p>
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<p>It’s not the vegetarian part that is bad for coronary health. It’s the very high carbohydrate consumption that is a given with the typical vegetarian/vegan diets. </p>
<p>The knowledge of coronary artery disease has moved on from the early crude days when they thought high cholesterol or high LDL was the key and the whole “eat less fat” dogma took hold (in the 1970s). It is now believed that coronary artery disease (in “normal” people without rare genetic blood disorders) is associated with a state of affairs that includes high numbers of small LDL particles, high levels of triglycerides, and low levels of HDL. This is also the state of affairs associated with metabolic syndrome, obesity, type 2 diabetes, and now even some cancers. The common thread in all of these is insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be caused or accelerated by the chronic overconsumption of sugar as part of the same mechanism that elevates triglyceride levels. Once you are insulin resistant, the consumption of large quantities of carbohydrates becomes an increasing problem.</p>
<p>From a dietary standpoint, the most effective way to reduce insulin resistance, lower triglycerides and shift from an LDL profile large numbers of small particles to small number of larger particles is to reduce sugar and carbohydrate consumption. That’s pretty hard to do on a carb-heavy vegan diet.</p>
<p>Anyone can see where they stand on any of the more common cholesterol tests. The ratio to look at is Triglycerides to HDL ratio. Officially, anything above 3:1 (i.e. triglycerides 120, HDL 40) is considered to be a risk factor for coronary artery disease and all the other diseases of metabolic syndrome. In reality, the risk probably increases at a ratio of 2:1. </p>
<p>The triglycerides in your blood have very little relationship to the triglycerides you eat (animal fat). It’s almost all produced by the liver as a “pop-off” valve to clear excessively high intake of sugar and simple carbs.</p>
<p>I’ve always had trouble maintaining enough weight. I can’t imagine what would happen if I cut out animal products. Especially since I’m not a great fan of sweets either.</p>
<p>I don’t really care which lifestyle is healthier (although contemporary studies almost always point to veganism as the healthiest). Exploiting animals (and especially killing them) for our own pleasure is simply wrong.</p>
<p>I have canine teeth for a reason. Humans are natural meat-eating animals. We are evolved to eat as hunter-gatherers. Not just gatherers. It’s our nature to eat as omnivores. So I tend to think that it is healthier for us to eat a balanced diet that includes meat.</p>
<p>Fwiw, yes that’s the case. However, most people eat WAY too much meat. So if you’re going to use that argument, you most likely have to cut down on your meat consumption. </p>
<p>Oh and no artificial foods for you either. :)</p>
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<p>Totally agree. We’d have to use chemical fertilizers if we were to mass-produce vegetables and abandon animal farming (not all people realize where the best “organic” plant food comes from).</p>
<p>I am a wannabe. Would love to try it. We eat lots of fish, chicken and turkey, and very little red meat, but my wife is such a great cook I can’t impose something like no-meat on her.</p>
<p>My canine teeth were removed when I was 12 years old prior to having braces. I guess that makes it ok for me to become a vegetarian now.</p>
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It’s not pleasure, it’s eating something that we as humans were intended to eat. The same as a cheetah feeding on a gazelle.</p>
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<p>The cause has more to do with genetics, obesity, and lack of exercise. Poor farmers in rural China eat a low-meat diet with lots of rice and vegetables, yet do not have the issues that you claim because they get a lot of exercise and are not obese. On the other hand, richer people in urban China are more likely to have obesity and lack of exercise (along with higher-meat diets), leading to higher risk of insulin resistance and diabetes.</p>
<p>ucb, true, but the keyword here is “sugar” - in its common meaning. And he is obviously talking about our Western society. I highly doubt those Chinese farmers consume as much sweet, refined carb-y stuff as we, Americans, do. The rice that they eat is most likely not our typical white rice that is stripped of most nutritients.</p>
<p>A balanced vegetarian diet high in “real” veggies is great and healthy as long as the carbs are kept in check. Unfortunately, I know some vegetarians who eat more potatoes, rice, and breads than leafy veggies because… they do not like the taste of most veggies. :)</p>
<p>Yeah. Sugar appears to be the culprit in insulin resistance – although, certainly some of us are more or less genetically predisposed. Once chronic overconsumption of sugar has increased insulin resistance, metabolizing large amounts of refined carbohydrates becomes more of a problem.</p>
<p>The big change in the modern industrialized diet is the recent widespread availability of foods that are high in sugar and/or carbohydrate and stripped of the fiber that slows the absorption. Few countries seem to be immune as rates of metabolic syndrome related problems are skyrocketing just about everywhere. India, with it large vegetarian population, is seeing type 2 diabetes rates go thru the roof.</p>
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<p>White rice is preferred by most Chinese people, with brown rice often being thought of as food for the poorest of the poor. Also, as a practical matter in past generations, white rice took less fuel to cook and kept longer in storage (brown rice has some oils that eventually go rancid).</p>
<p>You can eat plenty of white rice if you are not insulin resistant. Even if you are insulin resistant, white rice doesn’t pack anywhere near the punch of processed flour (or fruit juice or coca-cola). It’s the breads and cereals and pastas that are the big problem for anyone who tends towards being insulin resistant. Take those out of a vegan diet and you are looking at some pretty limited options!</p>
<p>The issues are how a typical vegetarian/vegan diet in the USA sorts itself out. Typically, these diets tend to be low protein, low fat, very high carb. I don’t believe that diet would be healthy for me. I think most of my health markers (blood lipids, etc) would go downhill fast.</p>
<p>DD is recent-vegan, expanding her tastes since converting from long-time vegetarian. She influenced DH to become a vegetarian, but his tastes are limited. I don’t think I could cut out meat entirely but mostly eat it when we go out.</p>
<p>Definitely not.</p>
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<p>A typical diet in the US, whether vegetarian/vegan or not, sorts itself out to be unhealthy.</p>
<p>Certainly, a cheese pizza and beer diet is not very healthy even though it is vegetarian. But adding pepperoni to the pizza does not automatically make it healthy.</p>
<p>There was a feature story about this on our news tonight. They suggested trying it out for one day a week to begin with. They discussed the pros and cons. I’ve watched a couple of documentaries about the advantages of eating a vegan diet. I just haven’t gotten myself motivated enough to give it a try.</p>
<p>No. I love meat. Pork, beef, poultry, fish, and wild game. I have no qualms about eating stuff that once had a face. HOWEVER, I do eat at least two animal protein-free dinners a week. Just to mix things up.</p>