<p>"Look, this should not be a an “us vs. them” situation. That does not really help. This is a systemic problem. We are all getting hurt, if not to similar degrees. Grabbing what is good for you as an individual may not be the best approach, though it should be ok. Something is wrong.
The pie is shrinking. We can discuss this here on CC.
The system is not working- probably not a topic for CC, as it is too political.
Let us just agree that the conventional ways to solve economic problems are not really working.
Somebody has to pay the piper if the pie here is shrinking.
And we are not just fighting over pieces of a shrinking pie, but we are trying not to pay for irresponsibility or mistakes or poor decisions we feel we did not make.
That is where the blame game starts.
All symptoms of a shrinking pie. And perhaps a symptom of a maturing economy that was supposed to have built-in safety nets. Not sure we can have it both ways anymore: growth and safety nets.
"</p>
<p>I agree that we are arguing over the shrinking pie…but we are also arguing over the damage to the economy and who is going to pay for the clean up.</p>
<p>I do think we should place blame…so this doesn’t happen again for a long time…and it is pretty obvious…which firms are in front…</p>
<p>There is an us vs them battle …</p>
<p>These “regulations”…“tax structures”…“policies” did not just come into existence by chance…and there are winners And losers as a result…</p>
<p>And when people say…please don’t blame others…let’s not fight among each other…well…those that don’t fight are going to lose…</p>
<p>I guess when all the lobbying goes away…and people who are among the wealthiest in the world …stop their propaganda…and politicians aren’t easily bought…then the us vs them war might be over…</p>
<p>Until …then…the argument…please don’t fight…please don’t protest…pllease believe my propaganda…please go along with policies…even if those policies will financially hurt you…doesn’t wash with me.</p>
<p>“Much of the growth and irresponsibility in the last two booms was based on liberal monetary policies, not so much real profitability. I think that, unwittingly, in those years we borrowed from these years. It is very hard to fix that.”</p>
<p>Regarding the estate tax, the mega-wealthy hire attorneys, create foundations and find all the loopholes to avoid it. </p>
<p>The unsophisticated middling wealthy are the ones potentially hurt. </p>
<p>A confiscatory estate tax only creates an incentive to “spend the children’s inheritance” which could harm many struggling baby boomers down the road, putting more strain on SS and Medicare.</p>
<p>"For 2011 and 2012, the estate tax and gift tax have the same exclusions and rates: $5 million and 35 percent. That means wealthy people, who might face the estate tax in 20 or 30 years, or more, can get vast assets – and, more importantly, the appreciation on those assets – out of their estates while they are alive.</p>
<p>“We’ve started calling it the Christmas miracle. It is unprecedented, and the opportunities that we have for people are spectacular,” said Andrew Katzenstein, a partner in the personal planning department at Proskauer in Los Angeles. “It takes everybody closer to estate-tax repeal without using the word ‘repeal’.”</p>
<p>Again, you are talking about the sophisticated mega-wealthy. Many older people hesitate to gift away large amounts, afraid that they will outlive their money. So they scrimp and save. To punish their children with high estate taxes is wrong.</p>
<p>You know, I think that all these damaging policies/dirty politics would not have been allowed if there was not all this capital and bubbilicious confidence floating about. Everyone thought we could have our cake and eat it, too. </p>
<p>Yet, without confidence, the economy canNOT grow.</p>
<p>Sadly, keeping one’s head down and working hard, and saving, and trying to prepare one’s kids for survival was not enough. Nor was being generous with time and funds to those in need. Or investing in the future innovations in this country. Or paying all one’s taxes. Or not going into debt. Or staying in a job for job security reasons.</p>
<p>You are right that we ALL have had our heads in the sand about what was going on in Washington DC (bi-partisan remark). And I wonder if our media system is partly responsible for that. But citizens’ trust in how government is run has been violated.</p>
<p>There are tough choices to be made.</p>
<p>Even if we clean up the political system.
(An aside: did anyone see on 60 Minutes this Sunday? The piece about the criminal Lobbyist was mind-blowing, worse than I imagined, and he says much of it is going on still… Wonder what the Founding Fathers would have to say about this… there is so much self-dealing and conflict of interest the ways things work now…)</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I have gotten six- oh here comes #7- calls asking me for money in the last 20 minutes, even though I am on the Do Not Call list… gotta go.</p>
<p>We pay full freight on taxes, no tax loopholes here. Our investments are self-managed in mostly mutual funds with Fidelity & Vanguard and we both have 401ks that we have contributed the max to since they were first established in the 80s. </p>
<p>The only big tax saving strategy we have employed is to put all our life insurance policies in trusts that will by-pass estate taxes. </p>
<p>Personally, my kids are not entitled to my money. I hope they will get good educations, graduate with no student loan debt and will establish their own careers. </p>
<p>I have a few whiney relatives that are upset with their lives and lack of financial security, but most didn’t go to college and those that did the club scene in their 20s when I was busting my butt 2-3 nights/week in grad school and spending my weekends writing papers.</p>
<p>I’ve read of people who make generous cash bequests in their wills to friends or charity not realizing that the value of their farm or other real estate meant that estate taxes would be onerous. So the friends and charities got theirs, but the children had to sell the farm or the store to pay the taxes and got much less as a result.</p>
<p>This was when estate taxes kicked in at one million in assets.</p>
<p>I think Americans should take a hard look at Greece and wake up to what is happening to them.</p>
<p>The politicians were borrowing money like there was no tomorrow so they could hand things out to people so they could be popular and stay in power. Things go wrong, as they always do, and that debt begins to crush the economy. Then comes the painful process of cutting back on the handouts.</p>
<p>But no politician wants to hand out cutbacks, so the borrowing goes on. </p>
<p>At the very end, the people finally realize the politicians sold their country away, so they could stay in power. Too bad it is too late to reign in the government spending then.</p>
<p>We need to reduce our government spending now, while we can hopefully still make a difference.</p>
<p>We as a society lambast shady operators who prey on the elderly trying to bilk them out of their life savings, but a government that sets up a complicated estate tax system that confuses most people, not to mention, those in their declining years, is okay with some.</p>
<p>I know many in their 80s and 90s who were so scarred by the Great Depression and fear about rising prices and the cost of nursing homes that it is unthinkable for them to give away anything of a significant amount. </p>
<p>I would hate to see an estate tax that targeted those people with low exclusions and tricky loopholes.</p>
<p>-Ok let’s reduce government spending…and the economy does what? -</p>
<p>Gets worse, or gets better, depending on where we are in the cycle. But if our economy is based on government spending, epically when it spends a great deal more than it takes in, we are heading full speed down that Grecian road.</p>
<p>toblin,
The video in the article was also interesting, if over-simplified.
(It is about how regional differences in COLA really make a huge difference in defining what is “rich”, and may be realigning the thoughts among the democrats about raising taxes because they often dominate in higher cost/more urban regions - a paradox.)</p>
<ul>
<li>as Republicans and Democrats are aging, how do they feel about government spending? -
Performer’s Mom - I like to think of myself as a Libertarian, but I usually end up having to vote Republican. I think you can tell from my previous posts that I am very concerned about government spending. For one thing, even if it wasn’t driving up huge debts (which it is), it is still terribly inefficient. Can you imagine how much money each welfare recipient would have if the money went directly to them instead of through the governmental bureaucracy? I bet it would be staggering.</li>
</ul>
<p>I don’t think those wealth-gap rankings are particularly useful without other information, such as how those countries rank, despite their wealth gaps, in standards of living. </p>
<p>The U.S. ranks #4 in standard of living/quality of life for 2011, which begs the question: how much does the wealth gap really matter in practical life?</p>