I thougt this was a capitalist country. isn’t the Bundy group pretending to be capitalists?
if the Bundy group wants the land, they should make an offer to buy the land.
Right, that’s what they are saying. Let’s see how it plays out. I am pretty sure the feds have a good idea of what they are dealing with from the last encounter. Hopefully some attempt at de-escalation will be undertaken.
And perhaps there is something to negotiate. Although I do not agree with their methods, these ranchers have it tough. Certainly the government subsidizes other struggling industries why not the ranchers? Could they not give them the grazing rights with a decreased fee until they get back on their feet?
The problem is that the ranchers are making it difficult for the government to do so by employing these methods.
A few decades ago, in a town near our city, a rookie police stopped a very old rancher (in his 70s at least, likely passed his 80th birthday) and found he owed some tax. This old man just shot the police and killed him. The veteran police forgot to tell him that he should leave him alone – this was what I read from the newspaper at that time. This old man was unable to make enough money to pay the tax, when the tax rate kept rising when the neighboring land was developed to become either residential or business district. He was “unfit” to live in the modern world where the citizens are required to make enough money to pay hefty property tax. That state does not have an income tax but has a relative high property tax. It is not a progressive state in terms of gheir tax policy (and in terms of the criminal system too: That state put more people on their deathbed than any other states.)
The government DOES subsidize the ranchers. They are “ranching” on public land, where they graze their animals at below-market rates. The entire business model is based on government subsidies for ranchers to destroy public land by overgrazing it.
These terrorists also want to be able to poison the wildlife sanctuary by mining.
“Certainly the government subsidizes other struggling industries” as someone with her own small company in a struggling industry… I have to say:
“um, no, not really”
Farmers and ranchers have been heavily subsidized for a long time and they have come to depend on them. Now with cutbacks they want to bite the hand that’s been sending the checks up till now.
I would love to see some of that action but I don’t pick up a gun to make my point.
This is very disturbing to me as well.
What would happen if the government gave up land but eliminated all other subsidies? Would ranching in Oregon be economically viable?
Or are the citizens of the country subsidizing an uneconomical business?
I hear nothing but deafening silence from certain media outlets and CC posters who so “logically” deduce that Black college protesters and Muslims are the greatest danger America ever faced. I can only imagine the reaction if a Black group - sorry “gang of thugs” - or a group of Muslims - darn it, I mean “radical terrorists” (what’s wrong with me today? It’s like I’m getting my terminology mixed up) tried the same stunt.
Some presidential candidates are also curiously quiet. How long before a statement blaming the big-eared man in the Oval Office for making life for those “poor, patriotic men” difficult? Anyone?
All I understand is this: you need to believe in Allah or have colored skin to be considered a threat. White people get a pass.
@InfinityMan To paraphrase a certain reality TV star, perhaps we need to halt immigration of white christians until the “government figures this out”
The “below market-rate” is comparable to lands owned privately. In the Bundy’s case the land adjacent to their ranch just happens to be owned by the federal government. That is the land available to them as cattle can only be moved so far. They paid their grazing fees for 20 some years and now it has obviously come to some sort of economic crisis for many of the ranchers.
And as the Cattleman’s Association says “how can it practically be called a subsidy when we are paying for it…”? Obviously these ranchers can no longer afford to pay the fees. I view this as a somewhat ill-conceived last ditch effort to save their way of life - their only other alternative is to close down their enterprise which just might be what has to happen.
Hello everyone, I’m from the area and would like to clarify some things:
The protests over the Hammonds wasn’t about the setting of the fires themselves. It was over the fact that the two men were given a sentence, served it, and now called back to serve several more years after having thought that they completed their time. That seemed unfair and harsh to many in our community.
The Bundys came to our county claiming to support the Hammonds but they brought a lot of anti-government sentiment that we don’t support or agree with. They harassed our local law enforcement and their families and generally stirred up trouble we didn’t want. The local ranchers DO NOT support these guys at all. The “militia” seems to have made it clear that they aren’t actually here for the Hammonds, but rather, for their own anti-government agenda of taking back land. Whatever the heck that’s supposed to mean.
There was a peaceful rally before the “militia” broke off and headed to the refuge. A lot of people online have been mocking the fact that it was called a peaceful protest but the fact is that there WAS a nice gathering before they took over the refuge. The refuge takeover is NOT part of the rally/protest.
And why are posters saying these ranchers are getting a “pass”? The government has not yet responded. It has been less than 24 hours. Let’s see what their next move is. Certainly they are not going to just let them stay there. Believe there is a park on that land that is probably closed for the winter. But it is income generating through entrance fees in the seasonal months so there is little chance the ranchers will not be ousted. The only question is how that will be accomplished.
But…but…but @musicamusica That’s racist, that is! How could you suggest such a thing! You must be a secret ISIS member! Treason, I say!
I can’t think of a name bad enough to call you, you…you… Muzzie Lover!
I guarantee you that if it was black people or Muslims, the FBI would’ve intervened within the hour. Along with SWAT, the ATF and local PD’s. These people have guns, they made their intentions quite clear. The question should be * why* is the government still waiting?
"And why are posters saying these ranchers are getting a “pass”? The government has not yet responded. "
Because, as you say, “the government has not yet responded”. So far, that’s a pass. The government will probably follow the pass they gave the previous Bundy protest. Ignore them and they will go away. But now they are back.
BTW, this is not a tactic that the government uses for every community.
I would also like to add – this only happened last night. We live, quite frankly, in the middle of nowhere. It takes forever for ANYONE to get here, including law enforcement. People are asking why nothing’s been done yet and the answer is, well, that’s because they haven’t had time to get over here and do anything. But it would be nice if someone told us what their plan was because we’ve heard nothing beyond what our local law enforcement is telling us, which is that “multiple agencies” are working on a solution.
Is a Wildlife Refuge under the BLM or the NPS?
Really - this is not happening in a major urban area. Temps here in the last few days have been about -15 and many major roads are closed. Our mail is flown in and if the planes can’t land… It is a very different geographical area than what most people are accustomed to.
Cliven Bundy is a multi-millionaire. If paying fees (which apparently he hadn’t done in 20 years) put a dent in his wealth, I don’t think it’s a “way of life” that I have a lot of sympathy for.
Sounds like another version of the Affluenza defense: “I’m just used to making millions from public resources for free. You can’t expect me to start paying now!”