We sometimes forget the scale of NYC: removing the whole of NYC from #1 in the list of population, Brooklyn is the 3rd largest city in the US after LA and Chicago, Queens is essentially tied for 4th with Houston, Manhattan is next at 6th and the Bronx would be 9th after Philly and Phoenix. My kid has to ride the subway up and down Lexington and that line carries 1.3 million people each day. That number is more than the population of Dallas and just behind San Antonio and San Diego in the list of largest US cities (so 12th in that rejiggered list). And that daily number is more than the average weekly, not daily, ridership of every other rapid transit system in the US, with the DC Metro coming in a very distant second at 829k per week, much less than the daily 4, 5.
My sister and her family moved to Jackson Heights, Queens 6+ years ago. Their neighborhood is attracting a lot of young professional families priced out of child-friendly neighborhoods in Brooklyn. The ten-unit building has 9 families with young kids, none of whom had roots in Jackson Heights.
You don’t want to have L line as your sole transportation.
The J train crosses southern Williamsburg and Bushwick. The G train runs through Williamsburg and Greenpoint. An the L is a lot better than it used to be.
Back in the late 80s/early 90s, Queens was known as the new Chinatown with lots of Asians and pretty run down. Has that changed? I only know it as the home of the US Open tennis tournament.
There is a gigantic Chinatown in Queens, but that’s one of dozens of distinct neighborhoods with every kind of economic, ethnic, racial, and religious diversity.
There’s another enclave of Chinese immigrants in Elmhurst. And another established Chinatown in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. Plus huge numbers of Chinese moving to Bensonhurst.
Flushing also has a very big Korean community.
My brother lives in Forest Hills; he has also lived in Jersey City and lower Manhattan. I think he likes where he is now.
“It’s crazy to me how some are choosing parts of Bushwick over Brooklyn Heights, the Upper East or West side.”
Some of its the hipster attraction and being with other young, creative people. Some if it is definitely cost based.
“I’m sure this will change around a bit when more young people in these neighborhoods have children and realize the sorry shape of many of the schools and parks At that point a chunk of couples will explore suburbs while others will head back to wherever they came from originally.”
Or just maybe they will stay put and make strides to make the local schools better. It has happened in other gentrified areas.
Flushing is a bigger Chinatown now.
Sunset Park is bigger than Flushing. Not by much according to this article but it’s from 2011 and I am sure the trend continues. Plus Sunset Park Chinatown is definitely spreading toward Bensonhurst, just as Manhattan Chinatown spread into the Lower East Side in the 90s and 00s.
I just moved to Manhattan but was somewhat surprised that I was close to alone in that- a ton of my friends moved to Bushwick. They’re getting an enormous amount of living space and a really young, vibrant community where every cafe is Twin Peaks or Moleskine themed or something. I think I’m mostly surprised by how non-negotiable some people my age still consider living on the upper west side. I fully understand the appeal of the area but it’s hard to justify paying double the price for half the space when the UWS is just a <20min subway ride away.
Rebaccar, you think the UWS is a good value? I like the UWS.
What do you think of the UES?
I love the UWS! But no, I don’t think it’s a good value at all. I don’t spend much time on the UES so I can’t really comment on that, but it does seem to be a bit cheaper than uws.
edit- this is from the perspective of a recent grad. I’m sure I’d have different considerations if I had a family.
Where are the ‘relative’ values in Manhattan? If you work near Rockefeller Center?
Hmm. Washington Heights, Inwood, Harlem, Hamilton Heights, certain areas downtown.
I don’t live in NY, but I have spent some time there for work. Took the LIRR from Penn to around Melville? It was about an hour or so each way. Did that off and on for about 4 years. It never ceased to amaze me how small NY was in area and how little people around there really move. You can literally walk (even a fat old guy like me) around a large portion of Manhattan. It feels like it is just a few city blocks compared to cities in the Western US. More people? Yes, but the city is strangely small to me.
I would say the area out by Ronkonkoma (Central Long Island?) is actually livable for someone who does not like being right in the city. To me, that would be the best of both worlds. You can have a comfortable life out in Hicksville (yes, that is really the name of a place on Long Island), and still take a train into the city for the allure of Manhattan.
Oh, ugh, I grew up on LI and many, many, people would agree with you but H and I chose to leave. One thing about LI is that it is a geographical bottleneck. Try to go anywhere, and unless you’re taking a ferry to CT you have to go through NYC and it’s not always easy. It’s rarely easy.
There are some wonderful places out there and some sleepers too. One sleeper is Bayville. My Dad calls it “the slums of Nassau county”. It’s on a thin spit of land between Oyster Bay and the LI sound and you think all those water views would make it expensive… but no, it’s rather a dive. Affordable!
Not many people talk about Roosevelt Island, but it is a lovely place. It is only a Tram and subway away from 60th and 1st ave.
UES has a lot more parking garages than UWS. Families with children tend to own a car, even in NYC. UES is a lot quieter than Murray Hill, lower east side, village, where most young people like to live. For the same amount money, you could generally find larger apartments at UES.
Queens is diverse. In Manhattan, the upper west side and east side are not exactly cheap, they have become very expensive as well, even parts of Harlem are now very gentrified and expensive. I am kind of amazed more of the Bronx hasn’t gentrified, the South Bronx area, roughly from where Yankee Stadium us, is a relatively easy commute to Manhattan (the D from Yankee Stadium is a super express), plus there is Metro North as well. The Grand Concourse is an amazing road, and many of the buildings there if fixed up would be spectacular, but unfortunately it hasn’t happened.
I lived in a section of the Northeast Bronx that had it not been going downhill, would have been ideal, it was quiet, I could walk to stores, was close to Yonkers for shopping, and I had a 20 minute commute to Manhattan via Metro North (the subway was a long ride). Unfortunately the neighborhood went downhill rapidly and is still crappy, plus we thought being in the burbs would be better for our S (turned out he didn’t go to the schools out here, he went to private school then homeschooled, and with his path with music living in NYC would have been a lot easier:).
There are a lot of great areas outside Manhattan or hipster-fied Brooklyn, I suspect as prices keep going nuts more areas will change over. Heck, if Williamsburg, which was built as slums back in turn of the 20th century to take overfill from the lower east side, can become gentrified, or Harlem that I thought never would gentrify back 20 years ago, anywhere can I suppose. It would be great if neighborhoods could improve but maintain some of their diversity and character, what seems to happen is they gentrify then lose their character.