Ask a Barnard Junior Anything!

calmom · March 28, 2011, 8:05pm

Parent here:

<ol>
<li>1) Does Barnard have a strong sense of community?</li>
</ol>

My sense is… not really. It seems to be a stronger sense than Columbia has, but not so much compared to other colleges outside of the city. There’s just too much going on off campus for students to center their lives around the campus. It think there’s a strong sense of an academic, collegiate community, but not necessarily a strong sense of a social community.

From what I’ve heard, it looks like students get lost in NYC and Columbia.

I wouldn’t call it “lost”. I got kinda lost trying to keep up with my d. when I would visit and we’d take the subway all over town and I’d be running after her from one track to the next. But it seemed like my d. was quite happy and very well integrated into the NYC/Columbia environment.

Is there a strong alumnae network?

Very definitely.

I am biased,

Why are you biased? If you are feeling a strong emotional pull toward Wellesley you should pay attention to that, and examine it. Maybe your heart is trying to tell you something about which school is the best fit for you, even if your head is uncertain.

2) How is Barnard’s financial aid for all four years of college?

Barnard’s financial aid is highly formulaic – so if your financial circumstances don’t change, you can reasonably expect that the financial aid will be stable, bearing in mind that the expected student contribution and loan amount increases slightly for older students.

If there is a significant difference between awards, you might want to examine why by talking to the financial aid departments of the different schools. Barnard may have exercised professional judgment on a factor that Wellesley didn’t consider, for example - or it may be using a different way of determining your parents’ home equity. It’s important to get a sense of what went into the calculation, because there could be a one-time benefit that won’t apply in future years, based on a one-time expense or loss that your parents had in 2010.

3) How are the academics at Barnard? I don’t doubt that it’s top-notch and probably is the same as Wellesley’s, but why do I keep hearing of Wellesley students pulling all nighters and getting B’s and C’s even though they studied for 7 hours straight. It seems like a very high stress environment.

Barnard’s academics are extremely rigorous and demanding. But there may be grade inflation at Barnard/Columbia that doesn’t exist at Wellesley. I think the cutoff for magma cum laude honors (top 10%) at Barnard is now at around 3.85 – summa is well above 3.9. My d. had one B and one B+ her first semester and never had a grade lower than A- after that – she even picked up an A+ in a 5-point course at Columbia. By her sophomore year, every A- was bringing her GPA down. But she had plenty of all nighters in difficult courses – I just got the sense that once she had settled into doing college work, she knew what was expected and could be fairly confident that if she did what was expected for A level work, she’d get that A. But my d. was constantly telling me that she was working very hard at Barnard, and I certainly saw evidence of that when I was visiting.

On the other hand, she also had a lot of fun. My d. seemed to very disciplined about her studies and very good about compartmentalizing, so she would have time to study and also time to socialize and take advantage of NY’s many offerings – as well as put in all the hours needed to earn the money to pay for all the stuff she wanted to do in NY. It would be a shame for a student living in NYC to spend all their time in a library carrel or in their dorm room studying, given what lies just outside their doors. So it may be that Barnard students just learn how to strike a good balance in their lives, and the many distractions in NYC helps them keep a healthy perspective on the role of school in their lives.

4) What happens when you want to take a course only offered at Columbia?

No such thing really, outside the core. Course scheduling and enrollment is integrated between the schools. You simply find the classes you want to take and sign up for them. Here’s the main site you will use for scheduling, so you can get a sense of how it is done:
[CU</a> Directory of Classes](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/]CU”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/)

(You actually sign up via Barnard’s site, but the above site is where you get the time & place info).

Do Columbia students get first priority?

No.

I want to continue taking Japanese as a language at Barnard, but only Columbia has the East Asian Language/Literature department.

You would go to [CU</a> Directory of Classes](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/]CU”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/) – look under courses beginning with “J” and sign up for the class you want. I can tell from the web site that there was plenty of space in almost all of the sections, so it shouldn’t be a problem. You would probably have to contact the Japanese department for course placement your first semester, since you have already studied Japanese.

Do Columbia students get first priority?

No. In fact, there was a thread on CC a while back where CC students were complaining that Barnard students had priority enrollment over them for Columbia classes, because the Barnard enrollment took place before Columbia enrollment – but that might have to do with the different enrollment schedules at the 2 schools and might be tied to class level.

In 4 years at Barnard, my daughter never had any difficulty in scheduling into any Columbia class. The only issues she ever ran into was getting into popular Barnard classes with limited enrollment – and she got into those as well, she just had to sometimes put in some extra wait time.

I went to the Columbia site (<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/und…_programs.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/und…_programs.html</a>) and it just says that Barnard (and SEAS) students should talk to their advisors. That’s for finding out about a major or minor. If you wanted a Japanese focused major, you would probably do it via Barnard’s Department of Asian and Middle Eastern Cultures. If you didn’t want a major/minor but just wanted to continue to study Japanese and have it fulfill your Barnard language requirement, you would just sign up for the course.

alexi2 · March 28, 2011, 8:59pm

calmom, thank you so much for the detailed answers.
I say I am biased because I have just literally wandered from the Wellesley forum after spending a four months there. I’m rather wishy-washy. I really like both colleges.
The financial aid was significantly different. Thanks for the advice; I will definitely ask.

If anyone else has anything to add, I would love to hear it.

calmom · March 28, 2011, 9:20pm

My advice is to email Barnard’s financial aid department and say that finances are important to you, and you would like to set up a time to talk by phone with someone at financial aid to go over the award so that you know what to expect in future years as well as your first year. If you have any questions, list them in that email.

That’s what I did – I had some very specific concerns and questions, and I got a phone call back the next day. In my cases there were some things that applied to first year only (a sibling in college, an unusual one-time expense that had prompted the Barnard financial aid dept. to exercise professional judgment in my case) – but I felt very much reassured because even though I knew to expect my share to go up in future years, I had a clear roadmap of what to expect.

If there is a significant difference in awards, and that is firm even after you talk to Wellesley’s financial aid department – and if you are still undecided – I’d suggest that money is a pretty significant factor in the overall choice.

churchmusicmom · March 28, 2011, 10:04pm

Another parent, here.

From my d’s experiences at Barnard, I would expect that she would assert that Barnard did, indeed, have a"strong sense of community". Maybe because she really loved participating in campus traditions like the big sub sandwich, midnight breakfasts, Urban NY, etc. She had a work-study job with the College Activities office, so she was pretty plugged in to what was going on around campus.

It’s all in the perspective. She LOVED being at Barnard and also enjoyed the City while she was there…

Best to you in making your decision and congrats for being in the position to have to make it!

calmom · March 28, 2011, 11:27pm

I guess there is a fit factor with the “sense of community” thing. My d. did not really relate well to a lot of Barnard students, but at least in her case, a school like Wellesley would have been much worse. My d’s the type of person who socially would probably have been happier at a big state U, but who really sought out and flourished with the challenging academics in a more elite environment. So one very big advantage of Barnard for her was that she did not ever feel trapped in Barnard-world.

churchmusicmom · March 29, 2011, 7:12am

yeah, I get that, Calmom. My other two kids DID attend a big state U and they were very puzzled about their sister’s school. It was so very different from their experience! But it was perfect for her…she enjoyed the balance between the close-knit community feeling of Barnard and the more expansive college-life feeling of Columbia by being involved in University-wide activities with students from all the schools. Plus, she definitely was able to take advantage of being in NYC…

calmom · March 29, 2011, 6:34pm

My d. definitely loved the NYC part.

It’s odd, because now I get the sense that the alum-network thing is pretty important to her. It was a big deal for her when, through her work, she made a connection with an older VIP Barnard alum. So I think she feels a real sense of connection with fellow alums.

But while she was at school it was often hard for her to find fellow students who were fun to hang out with and enjoyed doing the same things in their spare time. She did find a core group and made some very good friends – but it just wasn’t like “her” group was the dominant type of students. There was a very real disconnect between the kids from more affluent backgrounds and (most) of students who became persistent, long term friends. Sometimes it wasn’t apparent at first, but often a barrier in the end, when it came down to a situation of one wanting to do something on a semi-regular basis that the other really couldn’t begin to afford. I think NYC can be tough because there are so many desirable but expensive things to do & places to shop & eat. I mean – even when I would visit, there would be a contrast between my d. and me – for example, I liked shopping for food at Morton Williams, just around the corner from her suite when she lived on 116th St – but she said that it was way too expensive and she shopped for groceries somewhere else, several blocks away. Of course, when I was visiting, I’d pay for groceries or to take her out to dinner – but when I wasn’t there she was on her own.

It’s not simply a matter of overt differences-- all of the regular expenses and habits of day-to-day life can kind of operate like a sorting hat between the students who have to watch every penny, and the ones who have enough spending money that they don’t have to agonize over whether to take a cab rather than walk 10 blocks on a rainy day.

Even so, though – I think NYC was the best choice for my daughter – because there is such diversity and array of choices. I think a suburban location would have been very frustrating for her. She didn’t even really apply to any suburban schools, so its a choice she didn’t have to make. When she was in high school she had scheduled an interview at Wellesley when she flew out to Boston to look at colleges, but it was pouring rain that week and so she cancelled the Wellesley interview, and also skipped visiting Brandeis. But I think the weather itself was a good message – if it was too much of a hassle for her to get out to a suburban campus in inclement weather, it probably wasn’t the place for her.

I’m not trying to post this to be dumping on Barnard – but I do think that it is a very real concern, and individual personality probably plays a large part – especially for someone dependent on financial aid. I have no idea what the social dynamics are at Wellesley. At ANY elite college, a slight majority of students are going to be coming from relatively affluent backgrounds – that’s just a function of what college costs these days. That in turn will impact the social dynamic.

One of my daughter’s strengths is that she is independent minded and very outgoing – so the ready availability of a larger urban social circle outside of Barnard was probably a big plus. Of course, that impacted her perception as well – if she was making a lot of non-Barnard (and non-Columbia) friends and often spending time with them, then she would similarly perceive less of a “close-knit” community than a student who is spending most of her time hanging out with other friends from school.

My d. did participate on the various activities like the midnight breakfast (anything involving free food was always a big attraction) – I just don’t think she perceived those occasional campus-tradition events as being enough to cement a real sense of community.

alexi2 · March 29, 2011, 7:57pm

Calmom: That’s exactly what I’ll do, thank you.
"It’s not simply a matter of overt differences-- all of the regular expenses and habits of day-to-day life can kind of operate like a sorting hat between the students who have to watch every penny, and the ones who have enough spending money that they don’t have to agonize over whether to take a cab rather than walk 10 blocks on a rainy day. "

This is why I’m wary of going to NYC for college. I know its expensive; I live near and visit sometimes. There was also some issue about the mandatory first year meal plan? Some BC students online were griping about it and Barnard’s (lack of) wealth. Of course, I probably should not lurk the internet as much as I do.

Also, on my Barnard FA sheet it says “Barnard College Job”. Does that mean work study?
How -is- the alum network? I hear many positives but negatives as well. (mostly because it’s not as easy to develop a tight community in NYC as say, someplace like Wellesley?)

churchmusicmom: “Best to you in making your decision and congrats for being in the position to have to make it!”
Thank you. I realize I may not sound as grateful/excited/happy to get into both colleges. I -am- so glad I get the privilege of making this choice. This may be the hardest part of the admissions process though. Ugh.

Again, thanks for the insightful answers and all the information.

calmom · March 29, 2011, 8:14pm

I think Barnard now has a mandatory (but smaller) meal plan after the first year as well. That was also very hard for my daughter, because I could feed a family of 4 on what the Barnard meal plan costs – and my d. would end up feeling guilty whenever she went out anywhere else to eat, because then my money had gone to waste to pay for meal she didn’t get.

You’d better call the financial aid office on the job thing – “Barnard college job” is NOT the same as work-study, and harder to come by. My daughter had a fantastic work-study job at Columbia her junior year- great pay, flexible hours – and she had every intention of coming back to it senior year, but Barnard wouldn’t give her work study for the final year (they said it was a policy for seniors) – so she had to pass on that job.

I think the alum network is great, but it is a misconception to think that it will get you (or anyone else) a job after you graduate. It’s more valuable for networking as a source of information. That is, if you send an email to a Barnard alum who works at a company you are interested in, you are likely to get a response. But that isn’t going to get you the job. But it might help you get info on what types of things the company looks for in applicants, or whether the company is a good place to work. So “alumna network” shouldn’t really be a high priority item in college selection – to the extent that it is important to you, the differences between Barnard/Wellesley/any other 7 sister is going to be negligible. Also, there’s a whole women’s college, 7 sister thing that means that a somewhat loser, but still very real, network still exists among all of the remaining women-only colleges. In other words, if you go to either Wellesley or Barnard, a Mt. Holyoke or Bryn Mawr alum will probably think that’s a great thing and treat you in warm and welcoming fashion.

churchmusicmom · March 29, 2011, 9:12pm

About the Barnard College Job thing: at least when my D started back in 2005, a campus-wide job fair was held at the beginning of her first year. She went to the various “exhibits” (for lack of a better term), and was very interested and excited to get to work for the College Activities office. She actually did work there all four years, as well as during the summer before her Senior year while she was also doing research. I think they made an exception to the working a college job during your Senior year thing…

Point is, they did have the various options for job out there for her to see and apply for, and I am assuming they still do that sort of thing.

Over the course of her four years there, she also did some tutoring (off campus) and was a teaching assistant for a Bio lab one semester.

calmom · March 29, 2011, 10:36pm

I think there is a misunderstanding – my daughter could get a Barnard college job her senior year, just not work-study. In fact, one of the five jobs she had during her spring semester was indeed a “Barnard college job”. Most of the work study jobs are also Barnard jobs (or Columbia jobs) – but unless they have changed things, “work study” on a financial aid package means something different than “Barnard college job”.

Work study = federally subsidized work, can be taken at either campus, priority over other students for hiring, more jobs available.

Barnard college job = whatever is left over at Barnard after all the work study positions have been filled, but only in activities or departments that have funding available.

That is something that you need to ask the financial aid office about. It’s possible that it is working to your benefit --that is, maybe your full need is being met with a grant + small stafford loan, and they are offering something extra with the campus job. That is, maybe if you had work-study, that would mean a lower grant.

I would note that whatever my daughter earned in work-study money was a drop in the bucket compared to what she earned from Barnard Bartending. There is only one year that she actually earned enough from work-study that it made a big difference to her. It’s NY. There are plenty of jobs around, on and off campus – so its not like you will be cut out of work if you don’t have work-study. It’s just that it’s somewhat easier to get a campus job if you have work-study.

alexi2 · March 29, 2011, 11:52pm

calmom: I went on Barnard’s site and read up on the WS and BCJ. They are different, thanks, I wouldn’t have noticed. [Barnard</a> Student Employment | Barnard College](<a href=“http://www.barnard.edu/cd/students/jobs/student-employment]Barnard”>http://www.barnard.edu/cd/students/jobs/student-employment) It’s a bummer I can only get jobs on the Barnard campus and WS students would get priority. . . but it’s not like i can change the situation? It probably is a benefit for me, I’m grateful. Wellesley offered me work study, but no grants.
I did not know that about alumn networks. That’s good to know- I guess I’m just poking at little details now.

Judging from your and churchmusicmom’s replies, I don’t think I need to worry about not finding a job too much. Thanks for the concern!

Shadowhunter · March 30, 2011, 6:52am

I’m sorry if this has been answered before somewhere, I just can’t find it.
My concern is that in the Barnard financial package there is a “student contribution” portion that the college expects to be paid by summer earnings. Please let me know how easy it is to get paid summer jobs and how much they pay.

Additionally, does that also mean that international students cannot return home for the summer?(I say this because the portion Barnard expects me to earn is equal to the monthly income of people who have post-graduate degrees and good jobs in my country). Would a student also have to pay for housing if she decided to stay in order to work for the summer?

churchmusicmom · March 30, 2011, 7:56am

They do not mean you have to stay at Barnard and work over the summer! Just that they expect you to earn some money somehow and contribute to your education. If you realistically cannot be expected to earn that amount over the summer in your country, talk to the financial aid office about that. But it’s over the entire summer, or even from money you might have saved over the years. It’s just an expected contribution from you…

Shadowhunter · March 30, 2011, 8:43am

OK thanks!I guess I’ll have to talk to the Financial Aid Office…

radannie · March 30, 2011, 9:16am

I am not sure if this question has already been answered…forgive me if it has! How difficult is it for a Barnard student to get into a Columbia class? Are the Columbia classes reserved for those students first, and Barnard students come 2nd? I have heard, for example, the Columbia jazz program is basically open to Barnard students (so does this mean no competition in getting into classes?), and that the vocal program, for both schools, is basically housed at Barnard. Comments?

churchmusicmom · March 30, 2011, 10:00am

radannie, Barnard and Columbia classes are pretty much seamlessly integrated, with one exception: the Columbia “Core” classes and the Barnard first year seminar classes (I think). For all your other classes, you just register. You probably won’t even be able to tell immediately from the registration where the class will actually be offered…Barnard or Columbia.

There are other threads on here where this is explained in much greater detail. I am just a little pressed for time right now…

supyall · April 1, 2011, 8:38pm

could somebody please give me an honest explanation of barnard’s relationship with columbia?
i love barnard, but this issue keeps on coming up. do columbia students look down on barnard students in any way? do people treat you differently when the find out that you’re a barnard student? do some people see barnard as a temporary alternative to columbia?

when i went on a tour of the campus, the VAST majority of the questions from parents and students alike were about access to columbia (how many students transfer over? is there a limit on how many classes you can take there? can i tell people that my daughter went to columbia? etc). although everything else about the school was amazing, this weird obsession with columbia left a bitter aftertaste…

(sorry in advance if this question has already been answered)

calmom · April 1, 2011, 9:17pm

Supyall, this has been dealt with extensively in other threads – here’s a good article that one poster linked to in another thread:
[Relationship</a> Status: It’s Complicated | The Eye](<a href=“http://eye.columbiaspectator.com/article/2010/09/16/relationship-status-its-complicated]Relationship”>http://eye.columbiaspectator.com/article/2010/09/16/relationship-status-its-complicated)

I’m sorry to hear that the questions about the Columbia relationship seemed to dominate the tour of Barnard, in part because it sounds like that particular tour was dominated by rather dumb questions instead of questions focused on Barnard’s offerings.

As to some of the specific questions: It is rare for students to transfer from Barnard to Columbia – there is little motivation to do so, and it would make more sense for Columbia to accept transfer students from different colleges rather than students already studying on campus. There are no limits as to the number of courses that can be taken at Columbia, other than practical limits in terms of scheduling.

HYPSMCo · April 1, 2011, 9:49pm

What is your HONEST opinion of General Studies students? Are they looked down upon by others? Are Barnard students looked down upon as well?

Ask a Barnard Junior Anything!

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