She complained to EVERYONE about the meal, which is why we are discussing it. That is rude and ungrateful in my book. And, again, she should have found her voice and ordered the drink she wanted. Or said, “I’d rather have red. I can cover drinks.”
Where in the article does she complain about the restaurant meal?
“the author of the (poorly written) article is a recent Northwestern journalism school graduate.”
Oh, dear. That’s going to be another name unjustly slandered.
Ashleigh Banfield went after this with both snark barrels, but she stayed on topic. Bringing people’s age and lipstick choice into the conversation is a whole 'nother level.
I must have missed the complaints about the meal. The only thing I remember her saying is that he rushed her out of the restaurant while there was still wine in her glass and wine in the bottle. He wanted to go back to the apartment.
But I agree with the thought express upthread that none of this is really relevant.
intparent: it only seems important to me as a metaphor for the entire evening.
I’m just shaking my head at Katie Way. What will she do next?
Yup. Totally agree. Petulant is a “nice” word for those young women. Where are they getting the idea that it’s OK to e be a fully fledged adult and be rude and mean and vindictive in this world AND within their own industry. Bad kharma ladies. And then to turn around and fling crap at someone older who calls them out on it. Really bad joojoo that just adds to men who many times rightfully or wrongly think women can be emotional wrecks. Great way to advance the cause…not.
Yes, but my point is that it is a bad metaphor. I don’t tell people if they’ve served a drink (or food) I don’t prefer at their home that I want something else unless I’m allergic. But I do expect a guy to take no for an answer (although I was struck the first time I read it by him calling her a car – I’d have been out of there and haling a cab or Lyft ages before she left.
It just seems another example of her not speaking up and him not caring what she might want.
In other news, some (nearly 100) of the many victims of Larry Nasser gave victim impact statements today. In one case, the victim’s mother gave a statement because her daughter had taken her own life. So sad.
From men.
“my point is that it is a bad metaphor.”
It is that, and it’s selling the source down the river. Including that detail sets up “Grace” as a whiny child crying over the wrong brand of mac & cheese. Either it was intentional and cruel, or it was beyond tone deaf…approaching deaf deaf.
“From men”. Yes, it’s a known fact that only men are rude and mean and vindictive. Not sure how generalizing about any gender, race , religion, political persuasion, etc. helps anybody.
Not at all, but neither is it the truth that rudeness and vindictiveness is confined to women. I’m not sure whether Babe was right to publish this article, but it’s clear enough why “Grace” would want to remain anonymous if they did. If she used her name she’d get rape threats and death threats. From men. Vindictive men.
Aha, I’ve been wondering for a few days when someone was going to make this connection as this was one of the first things I thought of…
and from Reason:
I read several feminists’ Twitter feed. None is saying the events as described constitute assault. I realize Grace thinks she was assaulted, but seemingly very few people agree. Nobody here agrees. We are talking about whether Ansari’s behavior was right and reasonable, whether Grace should have left, whether her not leaving constitutes license for him to do what he was described as doing, and whether Babe should have published this article.
As described, it doesn’t sound like they were extremely intoxicated, either. They left some of their bottle of wine at the restaurant.
There is a real problem, but anonymously outing people who are boorish doesn’t seem like either a fair or reasonable solution. I think if you are going to out somebody, you need to accept responsibility. Would there be death threats? I don’t know. Seems hard to beleive but I don’t live in that world. But, there are certainly consequences to Ansari. When I was a professor, I got proposals from young women who were doing badly in my course to get together to strategize about how they could get better grades (there was a forced curve and if you did badly in several courses, you would get asked to leave). Some of these were thinly disguised trades of sex for grades. Would it be appropriate to anonymously post their identities and proposals on social media if that were to happen today?
@sevmom, as I mentioned earlier, I think schools have defined maleness as a problem or learning disability. I don’t think the best way to solve the real problems of sexual assault and harassment is to start with the presumption that maleness is the problem because doing so is a) simplistic; b) assumes that this applies to all males rather than just some; and c) it will fail politically. I think it is pretty clear that Ansari’s behavior does not constitute sexual assault but is boorish (after she said no and said “Let’s put our clothes on,” I think he kept pressuring her for some form of sex.) If you want to build a coalition to solve problems like this (sexual assault or even boorishness), you probably shouldn’t alienate the males who wouldn’t behave the way Ansari did (unless you believe that there are no non-boorish males, as some commentators seem to do). If you define the problem as lower power females versus higher power males, you are ultimately going to lose if you push all males into one camp and if, as you assume, males are more powerful in the forums being considered. This is just straightforward politics – don’t force the powerful people to ally against you. And, I would think that if a) one doesn’t distinguish between rapists and boorish males and others, men will find a way to fight back. In this case, what would stop Ansari from helping someone find Grace’s identity? Would that be wrong?
So… I want to say that I too could have written Metoo. But I am all grown up and handled the situation a very long…ago. I live in a place of show business…and long memories. When I was in high school there were more than a few people who were part of the Hollywood 10. And the kids who’s parents’ careers were destroyed without due process, much less trials. And some who escaped by naming names so save their careers The school tried to keep all parties separated by giving totally different schools. But it didn’t always work.
And so naming names has reared its’ hateful head again. People (yes, mostly men) are accused, many have lost their families and careers because of someone said…MeToo. So…why am I sharing? Our neighbors was named a week ago. One accusation and our neighbor was fired. He has a wife and four kids. Based on a wishy washy accusation. he was fired…no evidence…just an accusation.’.
“ If she used her name she’d get rape threats and death threats.“
Yes, she would. What’s our basis for believing that this isn’t happening to the man she accused?
Name some. Name some guys who lost their family and career because someone said MeToo and it was not verified by an admission, evidence (like a gross photo) or an investigation by their employer.
Al Franken for openers.