The 4 D2 schools - Marist, VCU, App, NCState all use “Federal Methodology” when calculating aid. (As per collegedata.com). Is this likely to help or hurt my situation?
It won’t matter at all. If you qualify for Pell grants, it will be the same grant at any of those schools. It will likely be the same subsidized loans, and could be the same/close SEOG and work study (those depend more on how much the school has to give).
The schools then have their own FA. They are comparing your need to the need of other students using the same method to calculate need. If it isn’t considering your 3rd car, it’s not considering Susie’s 8th car. If it is considering your mutual funds, it is also considering Tommy’s mutual funds.
…If your budget is that you could afford Appalachian State (plus $5k?), then that’s the budget…
That’s a good plan though we are likely to be a little subjective in our decision making. If D1 get earn a degree that is unavailable at App State but $3,000 over budget we aren’t going to say no. It is more likely to result in some form of family sacrifice. If she can get a school with nicer dorms but $300 over budget we would tell her to do some extra babysitting. Neither situation would impact D2’s budget.
If it’s $20,000 over budget then she will have to run numbers and think about 2 years at community college. This would also not impact D2.
We didn’t have the same budget for all schools. What we would pay for a top 20 was higher than a public. However, we had a max budget and we didn’t apply to anything that was over that by 10% based on NPC. D had a friend accepted to “dream” school bud had to turn it down because it wasn’t affordable. Even though the end result was a great school, it was heartbreaking to get in and not be able to go.
Of course it’s your decision but there are countless stories on here of heartbreak when a child gets in to the dream school but it was never affordable. Just take it for what it is worth. We did visit some of those schools but then used that in finding a realistic list.
This family owns a business. The net price calculators will NOT be accurate for this family.
Those OOS publics like VCU, and places mlike Marist do NOT meet full need for all accepted students.
In terms of federal monies…the $5500 Direct Loan is a guaranteed item. Anyone can get that by submitting a FAFSA. Work Study and SEOG have limited funding PER campus. Some kids with lower incomes don’t get SEOG at all. Some colleges don’t award SEOG. Work Study is fine…but most likely should be used to earn money for personal,expenses and maybe books. The student doesn’t see that money until they start a job…and earn it.
The cost of attendance at UNC-CH is $25,000 or so for an instate student THIS year. If you get the full $5900 Pell, and take the $5500 Direct Loan, that will leave you with about a $14,000 a year balance.
Can you pay that amount?
…Of course it’s your decision but there are countless stories on here of heartbreak when a child gets in to the dream school but it was never affordable. Just take it for what it is worth. We did visit some of those schools but then used that in finding a realistic list…
This is great advice. My issue is not trusting the net cost calculators so not having a good idea of what the final package will be. If I knew what merit money would be plus how the FA would treat my assets then I would know where to not apply.
FAFSA only schools usually mean big gaps. They may say that you have an EFC of $15k for each twin, but they may not give you a dime of free money. They may only give you loans…or maybe also a tiny grant…but still leave you with $40k per year to pay.
FAFSA EFC is a federal number. It doesn’t magically create funds for School X to suddenly have money to give away. And, of course, the Feds have no authority to make a school give you the money (money it doesn’t have anyway).
We don’t know what your assets are. If you have $500k in mutual funds, it’s really unlikely you’ll be seeing a lot of need based aid. That eliminate a LOT of schools if you can’t pay the $70k price tag. If you really are Pell eligible, you can figure that out by doing the FAFSA estimator.
You need to decide where you’ll be, whether you’ll need to shoot for merit schools like Alabama or Temple or NSF schools or stay instate. Are there instate scholarships/grants that can be used only instate? I think it is wise to look at what is available locally. You have great schools in NC, so look at them.
What is the clear amount you have to spend on both combined? Have I missed that? And one is good stats, one is low stats? Is that right? 1400/4.0 is the good stats? And the other twin? Is this is about sweat equity as much as anything? Is the lower stats student a better fit at CC fairness aside?
Can you pay $80K just for R&B? That is your starting figure for any residential schools. At least $20K a year for 2 kids in dorms.
You have every good reason NOT to trust how the net price calculators will,work…as a business owner.
Plus one of your kids is applying to Profile schools.
And FYI…UNC-CH also uses the CSS Profile.
ETA… I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer here but on one hand you say you have NO…$0…income…and on the other you say you can afford UNC…or App State. If you are taking out of mutiual funds to pay your day to day living expenses…I’m not sure where an extra $1000 a month…per kid…will come from.
Your twins need to cast a very broad net. They need to include schools where they will,qualify for merit aid in the mix…not income dependent.
A $0 income…and even a $0 EFC does not mean the costs for your twins will be fully met at the schools you are listing (except UNC…but remember…they will be using your PROFILE information to determine the amount of need based aid to award your girls).
Will either be in the running for merit scholarships at any of the UC schools?
@thumper1 I know the NPC’s won’t work and I discussed that in an earlier post in the thread (post #9). But the NPC is not necessary to know that NYU or an OOS public is going to be a budget buster. That is my point.
OP mentioned not wanting to deter the dream school. With a business, no income, and high assets, maybe you apply to see but you have to be have open discussions with the student through out the process that is the net price is above X, then it is not affordable, period. Outside scholarships will not bridge the gap.
OP mentioned not wanting to deter the dream school<<<<<<
Can we revisit the stats in context of this dream?
Totally agree…NYU and BU…and the OOS publics will likely breakmthe bank for this family. @Sportsman88
boy, talk is cheap but here’s my take:
Get the words “dream school” out of your vocabulary and off the table. You guys are driving a nice Corvette off a cliff if you are going to allow either (or both) daughters to “reach” financially with the assumption that outside scholarships will bridge the gap.
They won’t. You are not indigent- you have assets and a business which is in trouble. Any outside scholarship will reduce the amount of need based aid you get (if in fact you get any), but more important- are not going to make an unaffordable college suddenly affordable. The idea that you’ll stretch for one kid but not the other- terrible idea. The idea that you’ll decide what you can afford based on how nice the college is they get into- terrible idea.
I agree with the poster above. Do the hard part now- figure out what you can spend in total. Divide by two. Each kid gets that as her college budget. Figure out what options are out there with their stats and budget in hand.
I am so sympathetic to your plight- but you need to understand- right now there is a single mom posting with your same problem. Except her only assets are the proceeds from the life insurance policy she got when her husband died after a long battle with ALS which drained all of their other assets (and they don’t own 80% of their house- they rent an apartment). And her only income right now is her survivors benefit from Social Security. So she’s going to ask for Professional Judgement to have a portion of the life insurance payout excluded-- and maybe she’ll get it and maybe she won’t. And then you come along- in MUCH stronger financial shape at least from what you’ve posted- two wage earners, equity in your house, liquid assets which you can tap to keep the business moving ahead OR pay for college OR both… You look like you’re on much more solid ground financially, no? Your business could right herself- but the widows husband is never coming back.
Figure out what you can afford and divide by two. Tell both girls that you’re going to help them get a college education and will love and be proud of them forever and ever. And here’s your budget- let’s work together to make this happen.
Indulging the “dream school” fantasy is not doing any of you any favors.
Stat D1: GPA 4.0 uw (not sure weighted but she’s taken every AP & honors available). SAT most recent timed practice 1420 but will work hard this summer to get 1500+)
D2 GPA 3.9 (not sure weighted but she’s taken every AP and honors available). SAT most recent timed practice 1160 but will work hard this summer to get 1250+)
More tomorrow.
Thanks everyone.
So you don’t have a real test score that is worth sharing? Timed practise test results are irrelevant at this point. Are you being the realist? As a parent? Does 1420 get tangible merit at CH, let alone entry to reaches?
Your nightmare scenario is NYU offering a place (assuming it isn’t Tisch or Stern), right? NYU won’t be giving you merit or FA but heck, they might offer your kid a place if it isn’t in one of the hot majors.
“We don’t know what your assets are. If you have $500k in mutual funds, it’s really unlikely you’ll be seeing a lot of need based aid. That eliminate a LOT of schools if you can’t pay the $70k price tag.”
But, 70k per year per child turns a $500K mutual fund into a $60,000 debt. Even a $1,000,000 mutual fund minus 70k per year per child for four years turns into $420,000 (not considering the inflation in tuition prices that will occur during the 4 years). For parents with a struggling business this is indeed very scary. I would not want to retire with $420,000 in total assets with any remaining mortgage (small business owners in general don’t get a pension).
I think that the cost of the education has to be a major consideration in where they apply.
The parent says they can afford UNC CH and App State.
My opinion…the other schools currently on the list are not affordable. All are Profile Schools. All will look at the business with a fine tooth comb. All will ask how you are paying your living expenses with $0 income.
And agree…the practice tests aren’t going to qualify anyone for admission…or aid.
<<<The parent says they can afford UNC CH and App State.
My opinion…the other schools currently on the list are not affordable. All are Profile Schools. All will look at the business with a fine tooth comb. All will ask how you are paying your living expenses with $0 income>>>
Thank you! This addresses my original question and I really appreciate it. I wish I had left “scary” out of the 1st post but that’s what happens when I post at 1am. The backstory of my original post was a series of friends telling me:
- You'll get tons of aid because you don't have any income.
- You have nothing to worry about since they don't count your house.
- You won't get anything because you have investments.
- You will get a lot of benefit for having 2 kids at one time.
- If you don't have income today they take a 5 year average.
- Financial aid officers have a lot of latitude and can do whatever they want.
So I asked if assets count.
In other threads I asked about NYU and BU but I’m gathering information on UNC-Greensboro, Haverford, and 2 dozen in between, including a number of test-optional. My first question should have been if assets counted but this is the first (and last) time I’ve done this. (Gathering info on Haverford took 5 minutes of test scores but we visited anyway when we were passing through Philly)
I’m basing my assumptions of their ability to attend the NC schools on Naviance data for our High School. D1’s only SAT was in January and without preparation or much sleep she got 1200. This is enough for App or NCState. Chapel is holistic so harder to predict but her numbers aren’t outside our schools acceptances. They’re on the edge so a few more points will be needed to make up for the old/new SAT switch. All NC superscore so test scores probably won’t hold her back.
D2, also without prep or sleep, got 1030. Def Greensboro and almost certainly App. Our students have seen that GPA counts for a lot more than test scores at NC schools. I’m basing everything on our results from hundreds of applications, not the CDS.
So that’s NC. Anything else is impossible without as D1 calls it “Merit Moolah”. I will show her what I’ve learned, including the realities of need based aid. Then she can decide how much she cares about trying to boost her scores and write the essays in search of merit aid. She might decide that Chapel Hill is right for her and take some pressure off. I’m not going to take her dream school off of her table. I’m going to lay out the facts, including our capacity to pay, and she can decide what to do.
I am not going to take our budget and divide by two - I’m sure that works best for some families but not all. D2 had an expensive activity that we supported (indulged) for years during which time D1 never complained that she wasn’t getting her fair share of anything. D1 had a last-minute opportunity to go to Europe for Thanksgiving, two years in a row! We paid her deep-discount airfare and D2 never complained that she didn’t get to go or do the equivalent.
So I truly appreciate all of your facts, thoughts, opinions and perspectives. At times this thread has veered toward lecturing which I really don’t need. I know how to family budget and how to fairly treat my kids.
One other little piece of info.
If your kids both get acceoted to schools that meet full need for all…AND use the Profile to determine need based institutional aid…the family contribution will be 60%-60%, not 50-50.
I think you will have some good options but you need to cast a broad net. Those Profile schools WILL look at your assets…even if the FAFSA does not.